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Post by benjamin on Sept 15, 2010 14:44:09 GMT 3
hjernespiser, I live in Western Australia Australia and sadly there are no schools near to me and very few people that practice the sport in this country and the ones that do, live on the other side of the country! I also think it is a good idea to use a lighter bow for horseback archery. I use a 40# bow for horseback archery and a 50# scythian bow for hunting. But I am only small so I have a short draw length so im only actually pulling about 5# less than that.
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Post by Subu'atai on Sept 16, 2010 11:43:49 GMT 3
W.A. is still best for such sports mate, I was born there. The bushland is wide open and steppe-like almost in many areas. Hell I wonder if the vast bushland along the highway has even been populated yet. Sydney is much more green and hilly. Interest in the sports though is very limited as you can expect.
But in W.A. for practice I'm sure you can just grab a few targets, a horse, bow and arrows, ride off to a random patch of earth, and start shooting. Me and my mates back then used to go off hunting and 4WDriving all the way from Perth up towards Exmouth. More of a gun person myself however.
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Post by benjamin on Sept 16, 2010 14:12:22 GMT 3
Hi Subu'atai. You are correct. W.A has got a lot of good land and space for horseback archery. Just not in the area that I live in When we first moved here in about 1994, it was really good land. There was heaps of space for horse riding and archery. So it was perfect for us at the time. In the last 5 years, however, it has just grown so much. You are lucky if you find a space of land not privately owned by anyone. We still have space on our 5 acre property for the sport , but there is no one else in the area that does it or just someone that I can talk to in person about it. Which highway are you talking about? And where abouts in W.A did you used to live?
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Post by Subu'atai on Sept 17, 2010 16:41:33 GMT 3
My family first settled in Perth, where I was born. We would have stayed there for good but the recession at that time hit hard however and we've moved constantly for quite some time due to unemployment/other issues, making life quite difficult. We never went too far though, never went past the extent of Geraldton or Albany and we always managed to find our way back to Perth eventually. To me at that age, Perth was already a super metropolis lol. You can imagine how it was when I first came to Sydney, and I was shocked at the amount of people compared to Perth, smaller food rations with higher price, even narrower roads - every bit of space is used up! Completely different world from what I was used to. Ne ways, the longest my family ever stayed in one place was a suburb south of the city called Atwell (South of Jandakot - I'm sure you know Jandakot airport). It was a grand place I stayed before I hit teens - although no nearby shopping center (or even a freakin' deli!) in the neighbourhood at that time lol! I still remember hanging out with my neighbours in the wide open land there however, there was just so much space. And yeah, I'm talking the Kwinana highway (It's still called that right? I dunno, my memory is very fuzzy), because if I remember correctly, after you pass the swan river, pass two or three exits, and after that - no more civilisation!!! ;D During teens I also remember testing out petrol bombs and flamethrowers there lol - good times I've also heard Perth has changed, but I simply can't believe it myself. It's nearing a decade now since I moved to Sydney. May have to return one of these days and see for myself, the state that once inspired me to call Australia "My Island Steppes". Heh I'm sure you're familar with the song "Island Home" by Christine Anu: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Lx_y-FyT0&feature=related;D Ah... the nostalgia, heh.
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Post by benjamin on Sept 19, 2010 16:10:50 GMT 3
Thanks for sharing some of your history with me Subu'atai It sounds like you've had a pretty Interesting life. But I felt the same when we first went for a holiday to melbourne and sydney when I was quite young... I imagine it was probably a similar reaction to yours. I couldn't believe how built up it was! And yes, Perth has changed a bit, more people, more houses, more cars, etc. But even then, compared to cities like Melbourne, it's still fairly small. Yes, I know Jandakot Airport! My Dad works there as a rescue helicopter pilot. And I think you mean the Kwinana Freeway... Same thing though... That area is still fairly empty. The Freeway is used a lot more these days, however... Theres always cars and trucks on it. I think it would be quite interesting for you to come back and visit. You may be surprised at how much it has changed. Mind you, I barely ever go to the city, so I'm not too sure about that. But the outer suburbs are a lot more populated than they were 10 years ago. We still do have lots of wide, open space outside of the main outer suburbs. We quite often go camping out there on weekends. I like to get away from everything sometimes. So some mates and I just head North usually until we find a space empty enough and camp for a few days. ;D
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Post by Subu'atai on Sept 22, 2010 2:10:56 GMT 3
Aye, very interesting indeed. Nothing happens to plan it seems heh Outer suburbs populated now is it? Guess that makes sense, years ago my father told me that the Atwell house we used to stay in when I was a kid, tripled in price or something, and he sold early even lol ;D Imagine the frustration! To be honest it seems if I do revisit Perth I may be in for more surprises xD Haha yeah pretty much! Same thing me and my mates did back in the day, only problem were the roos... I wonder if they're still a problem today. Speaking of which, hows the rabbits? Before I left, I still remember entire universities overrun by rabbits! LOL ;D Regardless, it's good to see a Perth-dweller here Interested in steppe history of all things too ;D Cheers mate
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Post by benjamin on Sept 22, 2010 9:28:37 GMT 3
Well your Father was correct! When my family first moved into the area we are currently livng in, the houses and properties were quite cheap, because 15 years ago, not many people lived in the area. We had one little general store and that was about it! Now it is much more densely populated and we have a liquor store, a couple of fast food joints, a couple of big super markets, etc. and the prices of the properties have gone up considerably. AND the sizes of the properties are smaller than they used to be too! The roos are only a problem in a few particular areas. The council of the area where my mate lives ended up organising a cull because there were too many roos! And you notice it too - Kangaroo droppings all over the property... The Rabbits have calmed down in the last few years. They still come out in patches but they're quite easily controlled these days. I agree, it is good to see another Aussie also interested in Steppe history ;D
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 26, 2010 22:16:17 GMT 3
After yet another failed attempt... yet determined to go for another retry soon... think its time for me to ask some folks. I think I've been doing it all wrong, my "attempts" at horseback archery are lucky to even hit the broad side of a barn. How do you keep your balance and maintain aim? Letting go of the reins, having my bum off the saddle, time the beats with aim... am I even doing it right? - Trot... Don't bother looking at me doing it, I must have looked like a retard... - Canter... I almost fell off last time when my foot slipped off the stirrup while I was busy trying to keep pace and aim. No helmet either, I got lucky. - Gallop... NO WAY! At least... not yet. Going to try again the next time I go back to my mate's. Need some advice from horseback archers. Think I found a new hobby... that I'm horrible at heh, 2 hrs drive to and fro however just to steal my mate's horse for a few hours.
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 27, 2010 3:32:42 GMT 3
What is your riding skill level? I highly recommend becoming a better rider first. Try riding bareback or without stirrups.
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 27, 2010 14:00:14 GMT 3
Not really a good rider tbh, I just know how to get to A to B really heh, I don't own a horse and I live in the city now so You mean... walking on bareback, or something else? Anything more then a walk I definitely need stirrups for my balance - it's just too rocky and I fear falling to one side or even sliding off. Kassai makes it look so easy... www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOpOqgotJZcI was trying to recreate it last time, thought I got it! How naive I was heh - but this is a good sign, it means I'm still young and silly! ;D After almost falling off last time too my horse gave me a "Grrrrrf" followed by something that sounded like a laugh :/ Guess I may have to take your advice though heh, I might be heading down this or next week and see how it goes. Any last minute tips for me while riding bareback?
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Post by Temüjin on Nov 27, 2010 19:33:44 GMT 3
i've started riding without saddle and try not to use the reins if possible. i haven't reached the point yet where i could consider horse archery yet...
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 28, 2010 2:47:22 GMT 3
Of course it looks easy when Kassai does it. He's only been doing that for something like 20-25 years! ;D As you may realize, the saddle and stirrup are a type of military technology that enables riders who may or may not have had a lifetime of training to be effective fighters from horseback. They enable a larger cavalry to be fielded The difference between bareback and saddle/stirrup really creates two different riding styles, especially as it relates to archery from horseback. If you only use a saddle and stirrups, it takes a long time. If you work on riding bareback, it takes a shorter amount of time. Time to do what? If you look closely at the Kassai video, he's timing his shots with the movement of the horse, specifically when the horse has all four legs off the ground. That's the most stable position to shoot from! You can't get to that easily if you can't feel your horse. Bareback riding allows your body to learn to move with the horse and gain awareness of the horse's leg positions faster than if you just spend time riding in a saddle with stirrups. With the stirrup, you can set the length shorter and basically stand up and use your legs as shock absorbers, thereby bypassing the movement of the horse. It's known that Mongols have their stirrup length much shorter relative to European riding schools (for reasons I won't go into right now). Check out the stirrups that horse racing jockeys use! Without the stirrup, you obviously can't ride like that. Instead, riders pretty much use the lower back and movement of the hips and waist as a shock absorber. You're actually supposed to ride like this too with saddle and stirrups, but most people never learn this! Now, this is a totally serious video for you to watch as it shows what body movements you need to achieve so that you can stay on bareback! www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwocdImA6Z8 I know you will laugh at the video because it is awesome like that, but it is indeed the best way to illustrate what I'm talking about instead of using words HAHA this one too! www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ral_ksZ-iZYEither way, don't sit on a horse like a chair. You have to stretch out and strengthen those inner groin muscles and tendons so that your thighs embrace the horse ;D That's how you really stay on. Riding bareback does come with a lot of falls! What I'm advocating is basically the Kassai method. In training with Kassai, you have to first train and prove your ability to ride bareback (with no hands) before you're allowed to run down a course with a bow and arrow in hand. I recommend Xenophon's "On Horsemanship" too.
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 28, 2010 3:06:03 GMT 3
I like this video too: www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1WAHijtCLQAt 0:34 and 3:13 it shows the Hungarian csikosok riding. They look so beautiful on top of the horses. No chance of them falling off. These guys ride with a type of frameless saddle with small stirrups and none of it is tied to the horse. You can always watch some horse movies and look for the riders that look like this compared with the riders that bounce all over on top of the horse. You'll know who the real skilled riders are!
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 28, 2010 6:46:24 GMT 3
OMFT I'll be 45-50 before I master it then lol ;D
Now I see, I've been shooting at ALL the wrong times lol Thanks so much for explaining this in detail, now I fully understand why bareback riding is most essential to be a competent horse archer. No wonder it always felt like I was doing something so wrong lol
Yes I've noticed that, their knees end up being level with the horse unlike how I ride now (with the stirrups set a lot lower, just how we ride them in Australia), I was assuming that having the stirrups shorter allows the rider to use their knees to control the horse instead of heels, am I correct?
LOL! Haha those videos... LOLOL! ;D You're right, now I can't stop laughing lol I DEFINITELY didn't expect you to post that rofl! Reminds me of what the missus said to me once "Duh! ALL women know how to ride a horse" lol ;D
Ne ways this is going to be a challenge it seems, how long did it take you to learn how to ride bareback? For me I may only have 2-3 hours every 1-2 weeks for practice as well.
Hmmm, should I get a smaller horse for this since I should be expecting falls? My horse is errr, rather large, though the only one I really trust at the moment.
... you know NO ONE I've met/seen here in Australia not even the horse-riding instructors can ride THAT stable O.O
BTW Are they are sitting the full gallop?!
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 28, 2010 8:40:52 GMT 3
OMFT I'll be 45-50 before I master it then lol ;D That's not a worry! Kassai started rather late too! I really don't know much about Mongol horsemanship. There's all that leather underneath the saddle that hangs down below the stirrups, thereby preventing any contact between the lower leg and the horse. The longer stirrup length comes from riding styles designed for working cattle, which itself comes from European mounted warfare (jousting!). Sometimes you just want to let your legs hang relaxed because you've been out on the range all day. I'm not sure about the knee thing. You can Google for all sorts of tips on stirrup length. My core strength is rather weak which led to a lot of my falls. We practiced about 2 hours of riding bareback every day. By the end of the week I was no longer falling, but unfortunately I was there for only a week. I think it would have been great if I could have done that for two weeks. I was having issues with the slowdown, from gallop to trot. Many of the other riders were stronger and only fell the first few times. The iGallop looks great for practice and it does move like a horse, but it's also very predictable. Horses can sometimes move in an unexpected direction and it throws off your hip/lower back rhythm. Bareback riding can be hard on a horse too if the horse is not used to it. Kassai's horses all are used to it and have stronger backs for it. So riding two hours bareback every day for a week may not be an option. Not necessarily. I had the tallest horse at Kassai's. But he was a really gentle old stallion who knew how to take care of me. Trust is very important. If the horse doesn't trust you... You bet! This film was made in the 1936. It was based on a novel about Hungarian horse herders in the Hortobagy. The filmmaker went out to the Hortobagy puszta and used real Hungarian horse herders for actors. When you see what really good riding looks like, you have a better idea of what you want to achieve.
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