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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 24, 2008 9:28:03 GMT 3
Anyone here tried archery from horseback?
Before I started a family I had a few years where I got involved in it. In 2001, my husband and I went to Hungary and I learned about Kassai Lajos. We were thinking of taking a trip to his place to check it out, but we didn't know anything about it at the time and didn't really have time anyway. Then in 2002 I had the opportunity to meet and train with Kassai Lajos at the IHAF (International Horse Archery Federation) festival in Fort Dodge, Iowa. I got invited to return to Hungary in 2003 and train in "The Valley". It was very serious because I was invited as part of a larger group of "foreigners" to train and help with the formation of Kassai's international organization (called HAWA - Horse Archery World Association). I helped to elect Todd Delle as the leader of Kassai's brand of horseback archery in the USA. Unfortunately he lives out in Montana and I'm in California... A few other students there that I had the pleasure to meet and train with now run other branches of Kassai's style in their respective countries.
I'm rather a beginner with horseback archery. My horse riding skills are somewhat mediocre given my scarce access to a horse (I used to ride more at summer camps during my childhood). It is definitely easier to do if you're a real horse rider than an archer when starting horseback archery. The training in Hungary was awesome. All the riding is done bareback because it is the fastest way to become competent on a horse. Then one can use a saddle in competitions. I have some videos of demos and competitions in Hungary. I've heard that there is a young Hungarian girl who trains with Lajos and in the time since I was there she's become a master horseback archer, rivaling Kassai himself. She can hold something like 14-17 arrows and the bow in one hand. The Amazons have been reborn!
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 24, 2008 12:01:16 GMT 3
Yup I have, and no way I'm doing it at full gallop, or riding the incredibly fast Mongolian horse, or using freaking 150-pound Mongol bows. A nice pace with light short bows I can at least hit the target, maybe just not the bullseye And yup, female martial prowess is never to be underestimated
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Post by mongol194 on Nov 24, 2008 12:01:47 GMT 3
Hurraay another fellow Parthian Shooter! ;D I love horse archery, i could do it without thinking. However i find it difficuilt to shoot high fast moving birds. Anything on the ground from a lizard or porcupine to a full size deer however is totally another matter. ;D I tend to use the classic composite bow. However the japanese yumi is a longbow well suited to horse archery since the lower limb of the bow is shorter than the top limb making aiming from horesback a lot easier than a symetrical longbow. That said it's even easier to shoot a crossbow from horseback just remember to aim low. Reading your above post however i beg to ask how do you manage to pull a 150pound bow without stirrups? Or is the bow a lighter drawwieght? Personally i can do it with stirrupps even at the canter or full gallop But to shoot a powerfull bow from horseback without stirrupps is only possible if you lean right over your horse Native american style ;D, this however will reduce your control over the horse as well as making it very hard to aim. Or if the horse is stationary when you let fly your arrow. My horses are smaller stocky animals and thus maybe thats why they are harder to control while shooting bareback. Or maybe its becuase they are too used to stirrups and harnesses. Anyhow i would say i was a good horseman and a good archer. however i find i am not that good at horse archery either. That said i'm the only one left in my village everyone else is a horse rifleman! ;D
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 24, 2008 12:13:10 GMT 3
LOL exactly - I CAN'T pull it back on horseback. Those bows were on display when I went for an expedition but I simply just tried once by pulling it back on foot, and decided "NO WAY I'M USING THIS ON HORSEBACK" lol Besides my aim was just SHAKING, I might just end up hurting someone if I tried it that time.
I never actually perfected the technique of horse archery, it's mostly ride past and randomly hope you hit something lol. I grew up around firearms however, so archery isn't my strong point. I can ride a horse but I doubt I'll be able to shoot from it. Besides, I trained as an infantryman in the army, lol. And rifles are easier to use then bows when hunting.
Btw - MUCH respect that you're the only one in your village who can shoot a bow on horseback lol.
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 24, 2008 21:16:31 GMT 3
Kassai advocates using a very light bow. The reason for this is because the goal in the Kassai system is to perfect the art, not show how macho one is. Using a heavy bow to go hunting (i.e., taking a couple of shots) is one thing, but trying to draw a heavy bow all day (i.e., shooting 200-300 times a day) can result in unnecessary damage to the shoulder's rotator cuff. I have a 35# Grozer Csaba Magyar style bow and a 20# Kassai Magyar style bow. These bows have fiberglass cores. Kassai and several of the folks I know who devote more time into the sport (as defined by Kassai) prefer to use Kassai's wooden laminate Hun style bow. This bow is asymmetrical like the yumi. The bows are mostly recreated from grave finds, although Grozer as a bowmaker tries to make bows that more accurately reflect the grave finds while Kassai's bows are geared more towards the art and sport of horseback archery. The Comanche used a rope to tie themselves to their horses.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 24, 2008 21:36:38 GMT 3
Unfortunately, never tried it before Though I had some simple bows in my childhood, I used to play footarchermanship ;D Oh and I also never rode a horse before, but when I was a kid, I once rode a donkey
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 24, 2008 21:36:58 GMT 3
Oh and btw, I'm moving this thread to the Military History section
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 24, 2008 21:42:15 GMT 3
Hey, you can shoot from a donkey too! Todd Delle and his wife have a donkey and they've tried it. How about camels?
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 24, 2008 22:08:08 GMT 3
Unfortunately, never tried it before Though I had some simple bows in my childhood, I used to play footarchermanship ;D Oh and I also never rode a horse before, but when I was a kid, I once rode a donkey A nomad must learn at least how to ride a horse! Donkeys don't count lol ;D Ack, archery is so hard for me, I'm used to simply wet finger to feel the wind, aim, put pressure on the trigger, control breathing, align the sights and KAPOW! Not draw back, try to aim as your sights shake cause the bow is freaking tough, try to take account of the wind, gravity... heck let's just say I've never hit a bullseye in my life. I even cheer if I at least hit the target! ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 24, 2008 22:22:45 GMT 3
LOL ;D Never tried archery on donkeyback Camels? Well I've seen Assyrian reliefs showing the Ancient Bedouin Arabs shooting from camelback. Ah man, I and most of my ancestors have been Yatuq (nomadic Oġuz word for "Lazy", used for sedentary Oġuz) since the 13th century ;D Though I probably have some ancestors who stayed nomadic before finally forcily sedentarised by the Ottomans in the 17th century Anyway, I don't count as a nomad I guess ;D
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Post by hjernespiser on Nov 24, 2008 22:25:33 GMT 3
This is a part of the art of horseback archery. You don't really aim. You aim with your heart, feeling your target before you ever pull back the string (but it does help to always keep your bow and attention focused in the direction of the target). In Kassai's book he wrote that he one time attached a laser pointer to his bow to try to understand how he is able to hit the target while moving. The laser pointed everywhere but at the target!
One of the on-ground training exercises is to have a friend toss little cardboard targets into the air like clay pigeons in order to develop this "instinctive" shooting ability.
In the Kassai system, there are three targets mounted on a pole. One is for shooting at from a forward position, the middle is for shooting at from a side position, and the last is for shooting at from the rear. One of the mistakes beginners make is that after they shoot they change their focus back to their hands and will take the bow "off" the target. Training involves breaking this habit. You learn to nock an arrow blindly while keeping the bow pointed towards the target pole and rotating your torso from front to side to back as your position changes. You can watch videos on YouTube of Kassai. He always faces the target.
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Post by Subu'atai on Nov 24, 2008 22:53:37 GMT 3
LOL ;D But you have a huge interest for steppe history, re-enact it a bit and go for a horseriding excursion one day. Then you can at least say you can ride a horse! lol (you don't have to gallop ) On topic... Aye, it's the 'feel' that masters the bow. And that takes time, I have a 'feel' for firearms now rather then bows
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 25, 2008 2:27:39 GMT 3
LOL ;D But you have a huge interest for steppe history, re-enact it a bit and go for a horseriding excursion one day. Then you can at least say you can ride a horse! lol (you don't have to gallop ) Hmm yes, why not? ;D
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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 1, 2008 23:56:35 GMT 3
Was just looking at what Lukas Novotny is up to these days. He is a bowmaker specializing in horn bows (Saluki Bow). You've probably seen him performing mounted archery on various History Channel shows. The History Channel filmed him and several other IHAF folks for a special on Genghis Khan. Since then I've seen clips from that show in other History Channel shows. It looks like he's going to be on an upcoming Mythbusters regarding the speed of an arrow in mounted archery. Apparently it will broadcast in December... Gotta find it.
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Post by erik on Mar 1, 2009 10:49:45 GMT 3
iam interested in Lukas Novotnys bows. seen some short clip about his Mughal bows. Kassai and grozer are making much bows but the Mughal bow is hard to find. Prefer Grozer to kassais bows though. but have one kassai Mongol2 60#
How was kassais camp? Its many ppl taking intrest in it? Hungarians mostly or also many foringers?
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