Baysongor : Thank you wise german guys that you teached us how to call our own ancestor, hungarians were certainly some kind of apes who just popped up from nothing in 896. The whole steppe knew Attila unless hungarians, absolutely believable.
Post by H. Ihsan Erkoc on Dec 8, 2012 13:29:17 GMT 3
that's also possible. do you know the etymology of the word "miracle" as it sounds similar?
Hmm I don't know unfortunately
The name was so clearly ATTILA with the back vowels according to the various people who had actual physical contact with Attila and heard the Hunnic language. It's a back vowel in both the Latin and Greek written records and Germanic oral tradition, like the form Atli from a Germanic language which wasn't affected by the High German sound changes. Even the Hungarian Gestas use a back vowel form of his name.
But changes from front vowels to back vowels existed in Old Turkic too; for example the name of the Khazars, Qasar, actually derives from Käzär (which would be Gezer in modern Turkish) meaning "Wanderer". Similarly, the name Qazaq (Kazakh) also derives from the same root verb Käz- ("to wander").
Yes, I have thought about this too. It is quite possible since the "Saka Mithraism" (as Alisher Akishev calls it) was common for both Iranian and Turkic tribes in Central Asia. Another example is the Uighur Buddhist name Burxan Qulï - "servant of the Buddha" (= Skt. Buddhadāsa). I believe it may be possible that to the same type belongs also the Proto-Bulgarian Avitohol or Avitoholï (Àâèòîõîëú - the final "big Er" letter was actually pronounced in Old Church Slavonic) which could be explained as Abita Qulï - "servant of Amita" (i.e. of Amitābha Buddha as his name was pronounced Abita in Old Uighur). It was thought before that the "Pure Land" sect of Buddhism has developed in China, but recent archaeological findings show that the cult of Amitābha was present in the Kushan Empire as early as the time of king Huvishka who was indeed a contemporary of Avitohol (mid-2nd century according to the List).
One thing I wondered for a long time. Why doesn't Vatican have any records regarding anything Hunnic? After all their pope spoke with Attila face to face.
Check Otto Maenchen-Helfen's book The World of the Huns. He has a detailed study on this issue of the Pope meeting with Attila.
Nomad, rider of the ancient east Nomad, rider that men know the least Nomad, where you come from no one knows Nomad, where you go to no one tells
Whether it is suffix or not is debatable, but the -a ending is there - it was just dropped in the later forms. This is a well attested change in the Iranian and Indo-Aryan languages during the transition from the ancient to the middle and new stages. For example: the ancient Iranian Mithra ("friend" - the god of contracts) becomes Mihr in Middle Persian and Mehr in modern Farsi (now meaning "friendship, love" and metaphorically - "sun", because Mithra was also a solar deity), while Sanskrit names like Rāma and Kumāra become Ram and Kumar in modern Hindi. Thus the Pashto kul (کول, "family") is actually an Indian loanword from Sanskrit kula (कुल) - "family, tribe, caste". Κοζουλου from the other hand is just Greek Genitive of the name which can be expected on a coin. As for the Chinese forms - they usually only approximate foreign names with the syllables available in the Chinese language. And mind that apart from the language changes through the ages all those are foreign renderings of the original Hunnic names, so they couldn't be always accurate.
however, the suffix is specifically -ila, not -la nor -a. in the examples above, the 'l' belonged to the preceeding words while the 'a' was only the suffix.
Do we have knowledge of the names of Goth generals in Atilla's army?
yes. actually someone took the time and analyze the names on attila's court, and the result was that some names could be interpretet to be germanic, some can be interpretet to be turkic, a few can be both (!). but a lot cannot be explained by either turkic nor germanic roots. also, the two only words from hunnic language are slavic (maybe loanwords, maybe in fact they're loanwords FROM hunnic, we don't know). at the end of the day however, all those analyzes lead nowhere because there's no conclusive evidence for any single language.
I wrote the possible solution for this hungarian - hun matter in the hungarian language topic before. We will never find the connection if we suppose that the magyars were spoken a finnougrian language. Its clear that the huns did not. THe magyars did not either, they got our language in the carpathian basin. This is the only way to understand sources like gesta hungarorum and hunnorum, thats the only way they makes sense.