Attila
Är
History Enthusiast
Posts: 48
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Post by Attila on Oct 22, 2008 4:42:16 GMT 3
What are the true origins of the Croats? I've heard a few theories, the most widely accepted being that the Croats were descended from the early Slavs. There are some other theories as well, most notably the Sarmatian/Scythian origin of the Croats. Yet another theory states that the Croats originated from the Illyrians themselves.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 22, 2008 12:19:52 GMT 3
Yes, I heard about this Iranic origin theory before, but I personally don't give muh credit to it; this doesn't mean it's totally wrong ;D
As far as I know, the Croats were one of the two major Slavic peoples who migrated to Illyria in the 7th century; the other one was the Serbs. However, the Serbs and Croats soon Slaviced the already-Latinised Illyrians.
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 22, 2008 14:38:57 GMT 3
Croats have some Latin(Italians), Germanic and Hungarian influences in their physical apperances. For instance Latin phenotypes are dominant in Dalmatia. Slav types are seen in Slavonia. Near Austria Germanic appereances seems like Hungarics near Hungarian Border.
- Illyrians
- Latins(Ancient Romans, Vlachs - Vlachs have small minority currently in Croatia who is speaking Istro-Romanian Language - They are related with Romania and Romanians)
- Slav
- German
- Hungarian(and Avars)
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Oct 22, 2008 14:39:51 GMT 3
I personally think they are more slavic possibly having together with Serbs notable Iranian influence through some tribal confederation with some Iranic tribes of the steppes.
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Attila
Är
History Enthusiast
Posts: 48
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Post by Attila on Oct 25, 2008 11:10:37 GMT 3
Though I'm not certain, a possibility for the origins of the Croats, and early Slavs in general, would be a northern Thracian origin. The early Slavic lands were just directly north of the Carpathian mountain range, so it's a possibility. However, I think it's more likely to believe that the Croats and early Slavs were either a unique culture, or western Scytho-Sarmatians.
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Post by Neman on Mar 8, 2010 21:34:17 GMT 3
Croats and Serbs have the same origin to the Christian era they were one, same people. Since the Serbs came under the influence of Orthodoxy and Croatian Catholicism the difference between these two nations begin to grow and lead to numerous conflicts which unfortunately still does not stop. But we are essentially still the same people who speak the same language.
Origin of Croats as same as the origin of the Serbs. From the old homeland, which is located in northeastern Europe, Serbs and Croats were settled in the area today Bohemia. After this the tribe came to the Balkans.
It is certain that the Sarmatians had influence on the Slavic nations directly or indirectly, but the Slavic people are no heirs or Sarmatians
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Post by sarmat on Mar 8, 2010 21:40:27 GMT 3
I'm, actually, a bit confused about Croat origins, cause it seems that there was a large group of them living in modern Western Ukraine, they were a part of the ancient Rus state under the name "White Croats" and many of them moved to Balkans onlly around 9-10 century AD when Serbs were already there (starting from the 6th century AD). Also, Serbs seem to originate in the North-Central Europe. There are still Luzhician Sorbs/Serbs who live in Saxony, though most of them are already assimilated into German ethnos. That homeland of Serbs was curiously also called "White" Serbia.
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Post by Neman on Mar 9, 2010 0:37:50 GMT 3
2 sarmat Of course you're quite right, trust me History of South Slavic peoples is very confusing. Even today there are at least three theories for the migration of Serbs and nothing less for the Croat. As regards Sorbs, I guess that they are part of the Serbs who remained there since the majority of Serbs went to the Balkans. As regards white Croats I have no idea  |
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 9, 2010 17:42:01 GMT 3
Hi,How are you ? I am suprised to see a Serbian participant in the Forum.That's something new !  Hi Neman.About the Origin of the Croats i am not quite shure.But they must have formed the large population of the Slavs i suppose.I heard about White Croats.And Actually one thing i know about the Croats is that They have been one of themost toughest enemies of the Bulgars. I have one image of the Migration of the Croats.I think they have lived somewehere in the Areas of the Carpattian basin and in the north-west parts of Ukraine and later migrated down southwest to where their present location is. |
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 9, 2010 17:42:34 GMT 3
Pic-Image of Croats. Attachments:
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 9, 2010 20:16:15 GMT 3
Hi,How are you ? I am suprised to see a Serbian participant in the Forum.That's something new ! Actually, aca, one of our Yabghus (Great Moderators), is Serbian and he has been here for a long time already |
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 9, 2010 20:36:49 GMT 3
Alright.
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Post by Temüjin on Mar 9, 2010 22:07:29 GMT 3
I'm, actually, a bit confused about Croat origins, cause it seems that there was a large group of them living in modern Western Ukraine, they were a part of the ancient Rus state under the name "White Croats" and many of them moved to Balkans onlly around 9-10 century AD when Serbs were already there (starting from the 6th century AD). Also, Serbs seem to originate in the North-Central Europe. There are still Luzhician Sorbs/Serbs who live in Saxony, though most of them are already assimilated into German ethnos. That homeland of Serbs was curiously also called "White" Serbia. the exact location of the White Croats is uncertain, or changed. i've seen both reference to West-Ukraine as well as southwest Poland, which would place them pretty close to the Sorbs. edit: wikipedia has a plausible explanation: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Croats |
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Post by Neman on Mar 10, 2010 13:51:09 GMT 3
2 Asparuh We are a small nation but we are in good places. You're totally right. Croats are offered a great resistance to the Bulgarians, Serbian ruler of Zacharias because he was defeated by the Bulgarian Tsar Simeon , fled to Croatia. Bulgarian army which was going to be prosecuted and which has penetrated into Croatia was totally defeated:) This is not the only example ... As white Croats and Serbs white regarding, the problem is that the only data that we have, has been written by others and a few hundred years later (for example, Constantine Porphyrogenitus) The picture is great, I know it, iimage is the work of the great painter Otto Ivekovic. The image is called "the arrival of Croats to the Adriatic." |
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 11, 2010 0:36:11 GMT 3
Alright.Interesting.
Yes i know about Tzar Simeon.During his reign Serbian Kingdom fell in Bulgar hands and we had Albania as well.But the Croat organized their defense succesfully against us.
Anyway.This is history.There was a often confrontation between Serbia and Bulgaria in the middle ages.Some of the Serbian attacks upon us were due to the Vyzantine diplomacy putting the Serbs and the Croats against us.They did the same with the Magyars,Khazars,Turks and others.Actually the reason that the Ottomans came to the Balkans is partially Greek too,because they started to used them as a mercenaries against their enemies.Balkan history is so complicated.
But i guess Croats have themselfes a great spot by the Adriatic sea.
As i know Croatia is a famous tourist destination in Europe today.
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Hi Neman.About the Origin of the Croats i am not quite shure.But they must have formed the large population of the Slavs i suppose.I heard about White Croats.And Actually one thing i know about the Croats is that They have been one of themost toughest enemies of the Bulgars.
