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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 7, 2006 20:15:51 GMT 3
Let us discuss the issue of Islamisation among the Qazaqs.
Is it true that they started converting to Islâm in the 18th century, with the influence of imams coming from Qazan?
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Sept 8, 2006 0:25:24 GMT 3
No, it is not true. There was definitely a help of Qazan Muslims during the Russian empire and its colonial policy, but the first convertions occured much earlier. In 751 in the place called Atlakh near today's Kazak-Kyrgyz boder, there was a great battle between two great armies of the East - Muslims of Abbasid khalifate and Chinese of Tan dynasty. The enemies were equal, but Muslims eventually won. The reason was the local Turkic tribes: in this decisive battle Qarluq Turkic forces attacked Chinese from the rear. That was the beginning of Turkic-Muslim cooperation in Central Asia, which eventually led to the convertion of Turks into Islam. The first ruler to convert to Islam was Qarakhanid Satuq Boghra khan (910). In 922 the Volga Bulgars proclaim Islam an official religion of their state. In 960 Suleyman Tonga khan of Qarakhanid declares Islam a state religion of Qarakhanid empire, and 200 000 tents (families) of nomadic Qarakhanids convert to Islam, that's around 1 000 000 people! In 12-century, a great Sufi (Muslim mystic) named Ahmed Yasawi exerted a powerful influence on the Desht-i Qipchaq nomads in today's Qazaqstan and throughout the Turkic-speaking world. Golden-Hordian khan Berke (1256-1266) was one of the first Chingissids converted to Islam. In 1312 Ozbeg khan of Golden Horde proclaimed Islam as the state religion. This was a territory from Black Sea to Irtish. Qazaqs, as well as many other Turks, still have religious and semi-religious traditions which go way back to Zoroastrism and Tengrianism (we call God three different names - Turkic Tanri, Persian Quday, and Arabic Allah), but they did and do consider themselves Muslims.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 8, 2006 12:56:17 GMT 3
In 751 in the place called Atlakh near today's Kazak-Kyrgyz boder, there was a great battle between two great armies of the East - Muslims of Abbasid khalifate and Chinese of Tan dynasty. The enemies were equal, but Muslims eventually won. The reason was the local Turkic tribes: in this decisive battle Qarluq Turkic forces attacked Chinese from the rear. That was the beginning of Turkic-Muslim cooperation in Central Asia, which eventually led to the convertion of Turks into Islam. The first ruler to convert to Islam was Qarakhanid Satuq Boghra khan (910). In 922 the Volga Bulgars proclaim Islam an official religion of their state. In 960 Suleyman Tonga khan of Qarakhanid declares Islam a state religion of Qarakhanid empire, and 200 000 tents (families) of nomadic Qarakhanids convert to Islam, that's around 1 000 000 people! In 12-century, a great Sufi (Muslim mystic) named Ahmed Yasawi exerted a powerful influence on the Desht-i Qipchaq nomads in today's Qazaqstan and throughout the Turkic-speaking world. Golden-Hordian khan Berke (1256-1266) was one of the first Chingissids converted to Islam. In 1312 Ozbeg khan of Golden Horde proclaimed Islam as the state religion. This was a territory from Black Sea to Irtish. I see, but I think these got nothing to do with the conversion of the Qazq clans and tribes because the Qazaqs were formed after the fall of the Mongol Empire Anyway, thanks.
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Sept 8, 2006 17:43:36 GMT 3
I see, but I think these got nothing to do with the conversion of the Qazq clans and tribes because the Qazaqs were formed after the fall of the Mongol Empire "Nothing to do"? Kazaks are their descendants, and they didn't start from zero in the 15th century, they inherited their culture from their ancestors, as well as the religious beliefs. Didn't expect that I would write such obvious things.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 9, 2006 10:47:49 GMT 3
Ah ok, pardon me ;D
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Sept 22, 2006 18:48:20 GMT 3
Well can I add some more information.....
Tha battle of Atlas that took place in 751 between Arabs and Chinese didn't changed people fast. As Arab won and took the control of land (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan & Turkmenistan) they placed their own governer who was picky and to be muslim was good for business especially if you a in trade business. It only affected the south part of Central Asia. Uzbeks, Turkmens and Tajiks are very religious nowdays. Kazakh so so. Secondly we can say it was a war of religions in 751. Arab won therefore muslim religion is better and Alah stronger. It matters for a warrior. If I go to war I would like to pray for someone who is stronger & would want the god to punish my enemy. That was a push for muslim religion into the steppe. So the religion was abopted by chiefs and warlords and later pushed on others. Khans like Berke, Urus, the victory of our brothers under the leadership of Sultan Beibars over the Crusaders in Egypt made people who lived in steppes to think over their belives and to pick the side of the victor. But that still couldn't force to forget our native religion Tengri. I think the main reason why Central Steppes abopted the muslim its because our ancestors belived that Tengri could pick any forms but he will always be there. Muslim Religion has a lots of identical things with Tengizm. In some ways its even better. It brought education with it Many scholars were muslims and schools tought arabic and religion to the childrens. And accepting musim religion we changed it. Our muslim belivers not the same as in Uzbekistan or Arabic countries. For us religion gives us education. It opens a lot of doors for us. And its good for business. Majority in Kazakhstan Belive in Allah but we don't pray 5 times a day. We don't keep to the rules. We drink and smoke. We love women and luxery. But we know at the end of all this we will face him and he will hold a trial over our sins.
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Sept 25, 2006 5:57:20 GMT 3
Battle of Atla kh (Àòëà õ), actually
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Sept 25, 2006 16:59:02 GMT 3
Sorry my fault. I read it as the battle of Atlas and was wondering why it had europian style.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Sept 25, 2006 17:08:52 GMT 3
I belive that islamization of kazakhstan is not fully complet and nowdays bring some hard times on people. South part of the Kazakhstan 99% Muslim while north less than 30%(I count only people who keep to the regulaion in religion) and when it comes to elections in playes bad ticks on votes. When Taliban holded power in Afganistan and thought of expanding(Islamic Emirate) they relayed on muslim majority in the South. Maybe its good that we are not 100% muslims. It gives freedom and keeps us away from fanatics.
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 22, 2006 19:15:04 GMT 3
Expansion of the Islamic World to 1500
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 22, 2006 20:59:57 GMT 3
Very nice map
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Post by balamir on Dec 23, 2006 21:32:14 GMT 3
Battle of Atla kh (Àòëà õ), actually We call Batlle of Talas
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 24, 2006 15:01:01 GMT 3
Talas and Atlakh are the same place
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uyghur
Är
essalamu ,eleykom
Posts: 15
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Post by uyghur on Oct 12, 2007 22:22:01 GMT 3
thank you
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Post by kirischi on Aug 20, 2008 23:53:10 GMT 3
I belive that islamization of kazakhstan is not fully complet and nowdays bring some hard times on people. South part of the Kazakhstan 99% Muslim while north less than 30%(I count only people who keep to the regulaion in religion) and when it comes to elections in playes bad ticks on votes. When Taliban holded power in Afganistan and thought of expanding(Islamic Emirate) they relayed on muslim majority in the South. Maybe its good that we are not 100% muslims. It gives freedom and keeps us away from fanatics. I agree, Islam is outdated like the other religions, and it is being used today as a tool by imperialists to keep Muslim populations from progressing. Like the other semitic religions Islam can easily be manipulated to be used against the very people who believe in it. I have been to Kazakhstan and the one thing that I noticed is that the Kazak people are very free and unbothered by archaic Islamic rules, I was very happy to see this, and I believe that this freedom will help KZ progress in a much faster pace then countries that are 100% Muslim.
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