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Post by jamyangnorbu on Jul 24, 2011 1:53:56 GMT 3
Off topic, and thinking "out loud"...
Does anyone know how Russian is pronounced across the extant Mongolic languages? I know it is орос/oros in Kalkha, but am unaware of the pronunciation in other languages. (though it looks like it is ород/orod in Buryat when I browse the Buryat language wikipedia)
It is ཨུ་རུ་སུ་ (u ru su) in Tibetan, and I am surprised to see the closer resemblance to the Turkic terms rather than the Mongolic ones given the strong cultural exchange between the various Mongol tribes and the Tibetans, and the role of Buryat monks in setting up diplomatic exchanges between the later Romanov Tsars and the court of the 13th Dalai Lama.
R is a perfectly fine initial phoneme in Tibetan, and if we followed native rules we would end up with something like རུ་སུ་ (ru su), so it does seem to be a loanword.
Maybe it came through trade contacts with Uyghurs and Kyrgyz people.
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Kypchak
Jul 24, 2011 18:51:55 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 24, 2011 18:51:55 GMT 3
I'm certain the 13th century Mongols got their Orusut (or Urusut?) via the Qypchaqs and the Tibetans might have got it from the Mongols.
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Kypchak
Apr 23, 2012 19:02:48 GMT 3
Post by tangriberdi on Apr 23, 2012 19:02:48 GMT 3
Kazakh used to be a word for free wanders and then became a name for people who lived in central steppes. Now we know such nation as Kazakh who lives in Kazakhstan. I met uigurs when I was i Urumchi. During the conversation they pissed me off saying that we should be named Turkistanians and our land should had name Turkistan. I like to be Kazakh than Turkistanian. Your Uyghur friends are right. Kazakh people are Turks just likle their neighbours. Before Russians redraw the borders there was only one geographical entity in Central Asia, it was Turkestan. Turkestan included modern Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Xinkiang (East Turkestan) Tajikistan, Tatarstan, Baskortostan. Why are you bothered of being under the name of Turk, you are a Turk though? You can be Kazakh while being Turkistani. One day Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan will unite again, that day you will be called Turks/Turkistanis again, do not be afraid of yourselves. |
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Kypchak
Apr 23, 2012 19:16:35 GMT 3
Post by tangriberdi on Apr 23, 2012 19:16:35 GMT 3
I'm not an expert on Western Steppe peoples, but I can figure out the original forms of some of the tribes you mentioned: Urosoba: Urus might be representing the geographical region Russia, because we know that Turco-Mongol peoples usually pronounced the name Rus' as Urus or Orus. Oba is a well-known Turkic name used for clans and groups of nomads living in felt tents. Kay: Qay is the name used for Islamic sources for a Mongolic people known from Chinese sources as Ku-mo-xi 庫莫奚 / Xi 奚 and from Turkic inscriptions as Tatabï. However, I'm not sure if the Kay among the Cumans were the same with the Qay people living very east of them (and I mean, really very east). Terteroba: Here again I tend see the name of a famous steppe people living very east, the Tatars. I'm also not sure if the Terteroba of the Cumans had anything to do with the Tatar people living in eastern Mongolia at that time. Burdjogli & Itogli: Itogli is clearly Itoġlï which means "Son of Dog". From this name, I can suggest that Burdjogli might be a corrupted form of Börioġlï meaning "Son of Wolf". Begbars: This is the correct form; it means "Lord Tiger". Kochoba: Qočoba (Kochoba) means "Ram Clan". Karach: This might have something to do with the Turkic word Qara meaning "Black". Toksoba: This is most probably Toquz Oba meaning "Nine Clans". Etioba: I'm not sure, but maybe this might be Itoba meaning "Dog Clan". Etioba=Yedioba Toksoba=Dokuzoba Karach=Karaç Kochoba=Koçoba Begbars=Beypars Burdjogli=Burcoðlu Itogli=Itoðlu Terteroba=Tartaroba (here tartar related to verb tart- not Tatar people) Kay=Kayý(?) Urusoba=Urusoba Look incredibly Turkic. |
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Post by Asparuh on Aug 25, 2012 2:18:47 GMT 3
Here is a picture of Cumans ( Kypchaks ) conquering some parts of Russia in the middle ages.
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Kypchak
Aug 25, 2012 12:48:10 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 25, 2012 12:48:10 GMT 3
But there are no pictures  |
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Post by Asparuh on Aug 30, 2012 0:48:25 GMT 3
Here is the Pic,sorry,it didn't uploaded the last time. Attachments:
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 30, 2012 2:03:21 GMT 3
Oh that's a nice one now  |
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Post by Asparuh on Aug 31, 2012 6:00:49 GMT 3
I tend to find the best pictures for this forum only.More to follow in diferent topics.
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Kypchak
Sept 8, 2012 21:37:03 GMT 3
Post by barryleeober on Sept 8, 2012 21:37:03 GMT 3
Are their descendants of Elizabeth the Cuman of Hungary cir 1290?
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kochukhan
Är
Khan of White Horde & Muscalids (sub-clan of White Horde)
Posts: 20 
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Post by kochukhan on Mar 29, 2015 20:44:34 GMT 3
I'm not an expert on Western Steppe peoples, but I can figure out the original forms of some of the tribes you mentioned: Urosoba: Urus might be representing the geographical region Russia, because we know that Turco-Mongol peoples usually pronounced the name Rus' as Urus or Orus. Oba is a well-known Turkic name used for clans and groups of nomads living in felt tents. Kay: Qay is the name used for Islamic sources for a Mongolic people known from Chinese sources as Ku-mo-xi 庫莫奚 / Xi 奚 and from Turkic inscriptions as Tatabï. However, I'm not sure if the Kay among the Cumans were the same with the Qay people living very east of them (and I mean, really very east). Terteroba: Here again I tend see the name of a famous steppe people living very east, the Tatars. I'm also not sure if the Terteroba of the Cumans had anything to do with the Tatar people living in eastern Mongolia at that time. Burdjogli & Itogli: Itogli is clearly Itoġlï which means "Son of Dog". From this name, I can suggest that Burdjogli might be a corrupted form of Börioġlï meaning "Son of Wolf". Begbars: This is the correct form; it means "Lord Tiger". Kochoba: Qočoba (Kochoba) means "Ram Clan". Karach: This might have something to do with the Turkic word Qara meaning "Black". Toksoba: This is most probably Toquz Oba meaning "Nine Clans". Etioba: I'm not sure, but maybe this might be Itoba meaning "Dog Clan". Etioba=Yedioba Toksoba=Dokuzoba Karach=Karaç Kochoba=Koçoba Begbars=Beypars Burdjogli=Burcoðlu Itogli=Itoðlu Terteroba=Tartaroba (here tartar related to verb tart- not Tatar people) Kay=Kayý(?) Urusoba=Urusoba Look incredibly Turkic. Kay=Kayoba (Kay in Mongolians language means: Snake and Kayoba tribe was one of strongest clan of the Kimak Khanate... Respects |
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