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Post by Maotun on Feb 3, 2009 5:31:35 GMT 3
Moreover the actual linguistic material deriving from the Xiongnu is scarce and extremely controversial. These meanings have no less chances (at least in computed statistical meaning) that any other solutions have...
The good example was Pulleybank's results on Ket and Jie languages.
But for example the Yue-zhi / Jassy, is almost a perfect match, if supposing it meaned archer, as its older form is juiszi, and the latter is the jaszi. And if some of these or other will prove to be true (or Turkic or Mongolic, whatever), from these the old Chinese pronounciation will can be recovered.
And if the Xiongnu language was full Turkic or Mongolic, what about the hundreds of other words, for i.e. tribal and khanyu names, etc.
why haven't them been decoded so far?
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Post by ALTAR on Feb 3, 2009 9:37:21 GMT 3
Pulleyblank has shown that the language of the Xiongnu - of which we possess some words and terms preserved in Chinese literature - was related to the Siberian ethnics (Samoyeds) in the River Yennisej area, and not to the Mongols or Turks, while the Hun hords of Attila that tried to conquer Europe were surely Proto-Turks. www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Altera/xiongnu.html
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Post by Maotun on Feb 3, 2009 10:21:52 GMT 3
Pulleyblank has shown that the language of the Xiongnu - of which we possess some words and terms preserved in Chinese literature - was related to the Siberian ethnics (Samoyeds) in the River Yennisej area, and not to the Mongols or Turks, while the Hun hords of Attila that tried to conquer Europe were surely Proto-Turks. www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Altera/xiongnu.html I've read that today already almost all scholar consider the Xiongnu as ancestors of Huns. |
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Post by Maotun on Feb 3, 2009 10:46:37 GMT 3
The Chinese opinion:
Where are the Huns now?
Standing at the Tongwan City site, visitors cannot help but ask: Where on earth did they disappear to, these ancient people who galloped across the vast north of China for nearly a millennium?
Historical documents indicate that this strong, bold people had been waging war and migrating continuously across northeast and northwest China from the 3rd century BC through to the 5th century AD. Their activities came to seriously threaten not only the traffic along the Silk Road but even the very security of the feudal dynasties with their power bases located deep within the Central Plains.
After unifying the country, the First Emperor of the Qin Dynasty deployed imperial troops in pursuit of the Huns and finally built the formidable protective screen of the Great Wall. The years that followed were to bring increasing exchanges with dynasties in the Central Plains and some Huns began to be assimilated among the Han people. Others migrated to Central Asia and on to Europe. By the 6th century the Huns had gradually disappeared as a separate people as they merged into other peoples.
The nomadic Huns had first emerged as a distinct tribe in the 3rd century BC. They expanded rapidly by a process of subsuming neighboring tribes and eventually established a regime founded on slavery on the northern frontiers of China.
"After making war or peace with the feudal dynasties of the Central Plains for three or four hundred years, the Huns became plagued by both internal and external troubles and their slavery empire fell apart," said Professor Zhou Weizhou from Shaanxi Normal University.
"After this many Huns migrated southward or westward. Through submission to other peoples or by intermarriage they became progressively assimilated. However, the western migration in particular was to have a considerable impact on the course of world history," Prof. Zhou said.
"Between 89 and 91, groups of Huns who had suffered defeat in battle began to move westward to the valleys of the rivers Ili, Don and Volga," said Prof. Lin Gan from Inner Mongolia University.
"In fact, it was the fall of the Sogdian Kingdom lying east of the River Don in 374 that raised the curtain on the Huns' large-scale incursions into Europe. From then on the Huns began to play an important role in promoting population movements in this continent," said Prof. Lin. "As they pursued the Goths, the Hun troops even arrived at the city walls of Rome, capital of the Roman Empire (27 BC - AD 476). By the 5th century, Attila the Hun had established an empire on the banks of the Danube that was to deeply influence European history."
"Although Attila's empire proved to be short lived, many Huns stayed on in Europe and researchers commonly consider the Hungarians to be the descendants of the Huns", said Wang Shiping from Shaanxi History Museum, an expert on the history of the Sui (581 - 618) and Tang (618 - 907) dynasties.
"Generally speaking, Hungarians don't look like other Europeans," said Wang, whose opinion was echoed by both Prof. Qi Sihe of Peking University and former Hungarian Ambassador to China Otto Juhasz. "And what's more, many popular Hungary folk songs are similar to those sung in northern Shaanxi and Inner Mongolia. There are also echoes of the past to be found in their religion. Although Hungarians generally profess allegiance to the Church, they still retain many of the customs and habits of shamanism originating among the nomadic tribal peoples of Siberia on China's northern border."
"The Hungarian traditions of playing the suona horn (a woodwind instrument) and paper-cutting are reminiscent of those seen in northern Shaanxi. Even the way final syllables are pronounced in Hungarian is quite similar to the northern Shaanxi accent," said Gao Jianqun, a well-known Chinese writer and author of the novel The Last Hun. "Many Hungarian researchers hold the view that the establishment of Hungary is closely connected with the descendents of the Huns."
"Although the Huns may have disappeared as a people, their cultural conventions haven't faded away," said Zhang Mingqia from Shaanxi History Museum. "For instance, their folk songs have greatly enriched Mongolian folk music. The reed pipe (hujia), an instrument used by the Huns in ancient times, is still played today in China's Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang as well as in Mongolia and Russia."
(China.org.cn by Shao Da, April 14, 2004)
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Post by Maotun on Feb 3, 2009 17:04:18 GMT 3
None of them are right. Most of the words given have a clear Turkic etymology. What? little sea, black dress, pearl, red flag, etc.?? Are you kidding me?  these are nonsenses. but let it, I don't want to debate or convince anyone, it was just some hint. |
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Post by ALTAR on Feb 3, 2009 18:27:16 GMT 3
None of them are right. Most of the words given have a clear Turkic etymology. What? little sea, black dress, pearl, red flag, etc.?? Are you kidding me? these are nonsenses. but let it, I don't want to debate or convince anyone, it was just some hint. I'm sure its not Magyar Salami ;D All the words that you gave are clearly Turkic so your insists are useless. You only use Pulleyblank about linguistics. So the topic is closed until if İhsan want to going on discussion Regards |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 3, 2009 21:44:19 GMT 3
This topic had gone way out of it's context, so thank you my dear Yabġu Maotun, keep denying the facts, I'm sure it's only the Hungarians who would believe such stuff ;D Seriously, it is surely obvious that the Turkic etymologies of those Hunnic and Avaric words are way more logical and scientific. Uhm, didn't see any record of that  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 3, 2009 21:52:26 GMT 3
Oh and one more thing: The Magyars, probably an Ugric people, have absolutely clearly 0% nothing to do with the Huns who were a Turkic people |
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