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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 15, 2005 0:40:59 GMT 3
Funny thing everybody knows Kyphaks and the role in the history of the stepps but noone can for shore say where did they came from! I was surfing the net and checking through the books on Kypchaks! But as much I discover the further the truth and more questions appear! But to start with the origin of Kypchaks is my aim right now! Long time since I last time checked this page! hehehe ;D. I would like to discuss the this topic as truth could only be found trough the debats!!!  (Forgot who said that!)
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 16, 2005 19:05:15 GMT 3
I check the information on Bilge Khagan about the Kypchak! It doesn't match the logic!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 20, 2005 18:07:40 GMT 3
The Qïpchaqs were originially a branch of the Kimeks. No one is sure on the origins of the Kimeks, but there is a theory that the Kimeks might have been the descendents of the Chik people mentioned in the Gök Türk inscriptions (but I haven't seen any evidences for that).
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 21, 2005 7:19:30 GMT 3
Qipchaks never were Kimeks! In old times the tribe that holded the power gave all other tribes their names. Such as Avars (Zhuanzhuan). They conqued other tribes named them avars but later they were called psi-avars.(by Feofilakt Simokatta). Kimeks came to power in Central stepps between VIII-IX. Kimeks is the branch from Tatars. Ibn Hordadbeh in VIII while making the list tribes living in the stepps pointed two terretories one belonged to Qipchaks and the other to Kimeks. Later Kimeks spread the political power far more to the land of nomad Qipchaqs. So this doesn't fit!
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 21, 2005 7:37:22 GMT 3
In addition in IX after the collapse of Uigur Khaganate by Kyrgiz in Orhone 840. Uigur divied and went in to three directions. 1-Turfan, 2-Gansy and Irtish. But the is a theory that there was the one more tribe. Sary-Uigur that found the shelter north of Aral sea. (IX). Later they took the name of Kimek. Later they were called Kimak Bigur in the "Murudj az-zahab" by Masudi. Now historians think under the name of Kimak Bigur we should consider Uigur Kimak.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 21, 2005 7:53:05 GMT 3
In Yuanshi the chineese source while naming the Qipchaks ruling family the general Hubulai Tutuha they say that Tutuha ancestors came from the tribe which lives close to mountain Andogan by the river Chzhelyanchuan north of Upin. Lead by the clan leader Uiliboli he went from Mongoliya and settled in new land which they named cincha (qipchak)and took the name of the place. Later they were known as Qipchak-Baiaut. Too confusing lets leave this it doesn't makes us even close to the ancestors of Qipchaks.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 21, 2005 8:09:47 GMT 3
The simbol of Kimak's was dragon or snake. They belived and worship the river where dragon lives as they belive he is the ancestor of Kimaks. While Qipchaks (kipchaks, Cumans, Polovcy and so on) worship wolf or she-wolf(legend). She is the ancestor of Qipchaks. I think a lots turik tribes have same ancestor or animal.
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(Forgot who said that!)
