The Napoleon Thread

[thediplomat]

Let us discuss this small guy on this thread.

what are your opinions on Napoleon? do you view him positevely or negatively?

I tend to view him negatively. For me, he was kinda a Hitler version of 19.century. Because in Napoleon's France:

1- All boys over twelve years of age were trained in use of arms (Have you ever read about The Hitler Yoyth)

2- Turkish prisoners of war in Egypt were executed without any trials. ( Just like the fate of the Russian prisoners of war under the decrees of Hitler)

3- The Grand Armee invaded Russia in order to establish the French hegemony in Europe once and for the good ( We all know why The Wehrmacht invaded The Soviet Union)

4- Italy turned out to be an ''economic colony'' of France so that its raw material should serve The French interests. (Just like the life in Ukraine under Nazi Rule)

5- Both were cruel in showing insensibleness toward the huge casulties in wars, while almost showed a feminie gentleness towards women

6-Both were ardent lovers of history, and identified themselves with their historical heroes. Napoleon identified himself with Charlemagne, Hitler identified himself with Frederick The Great)

7-Napoleon's motto was: France First. Hitler's motto was: Deutschland Uber Alles ( Germany above all)

I think so far so good in order to clarify why I see him as kinda hitler of 19.century

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I used to view him in a quiet negatively way until last year, when my opinions about him started to change. I admit that he was a bit strange with unrealistic ideals, but he also did many good things to France. He was one of the best rulers of France I think. I like reading about him - indeed, he has become one of my favorite historical figures.

You should also remember that the modern European and Turkish pre-university education system was established by him

[Temüjin]

Napoleon was a good man, a great man also one of my most favourite historical figures.

btw diplomat, many of your points are incorrect.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I think it is not correct to compare Napoleon with Hitler. Hitler was a maniac racist. Napoleon did not have any racist ideas as far as we know. That makes a big difference.

[thediplomat]

temujin said:

Napoleon was a good man, a great man also one of my most favourite historical figures.

btw diplomat, many of your points are incorrect.

Then could you pelase correct them?

Let us debate then...

[thediplomat]

admin said:

I think it is not correct to compare Napoleon with Hitler. Hitler was a maniac racist. Napoleon did not have any racist ideas as far as we know. That makes a big difference.

Well, Hitler himself was an admirer of Napoleon .

Did you know that When France fell to Germany, he went to Paris and visited Napoleon's tomb?

[Temüjin]

thediplomat said:

Then could you pelase correct them?

Let us debate then...

first of all, Napoleon was not small, he was of pretty much average height.

1 - French boys were only conscripted in 1814 when the combined armies of Europe marched on French territory. boys also served in the Prussian Landwehr (milita) for example, so it was not uncommon. there never was an organized youth-movement comparable to the Hitler youth.
2 - Napoleon did not immediately kill those prisoners of war, in fact he released them on letting them swear an oath never to fight the French again, but they disobeyed this oath and when they were captured the second time, they were immediately executed. this behaviour (releasing of prisoners against oath) was common back then, one famous example is French General Lefevre-Desnouettes who was captured in Spain in 1809, broke his oath and fled from britain to fight again at Waterloo.
3 - Germany invaded the Soviet Union for Lebensraum (living space), Napoleon never intended extermination and colonisation of Russia.
4 - Italy was a normal sattelite of France like Holland, Germany and French controlled Spain, i don't know what you mean with "economic colony". Italy wasn't economically strong during Napoleons time.
5 - i wonder where you got the idea that Napoleon didn't cared about casualties, or that Hitler was gentle towards women, because he was not. however, Hitler liked animals a lot and decreed laws to protect them.
6 - it is really common, nothing special about that. btw i don't think Hitler knew much history, if any, he knew German history only...
7 - this is not Hitlers motto, this was the title of the German national anthem, much older than Hitler...

[Atabeg]

i love his quotes here is one

"what is history but a fable agreed upon"

[Verinen Paroni]

3 - Germany invaded the Soviet Union for Lebensraum (living space), Napoleon never intended extermination and colonisation of Russia.

Well, not only Germany invided for that. Also many Finns wanted more areas, but concerning Finns, that was justified, because those areas were stolen from Finns actually.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

thediplomat said:

Well, Hitler himself was an admirer of Napoleon .

Did you know that When France fell to Germany, he went to Paris and visited Napoleon's tomb?

Yes I know that very well. Nihâl Atsýz was an admirer of Mustafa Kemâl Atatürk, but Atatürk was mentally very different from Atsýz.

By the way, I wonder how you will reply to Temujin Shad's answers

[kokturk]

admin said:

I think it is not correct to compare Napoleon with Hitler. Hitler was a maniac racist. Napoleon did not have any racist ideas as far as we know. That makes a big difference.

Napoleon could not be a racist, this would be bullnuts. He was not French a Corsican and even he was French, the idea of French racism is silly, because there is no French race. Some of them are German origined, some are Celtic origined and the rest is Latin. I even do not mention the Basques, Britons or Corsicans.

[Verinen Paroni]

kokturk said:

admin said:

I think it is not correct to compare Napoleon with Hitler. Hitler was a maniac racist. Napoleon did not have any racist ideas as far as we know. That makes a big difference.

Napoleon could not be a racist, this would be bullnuts. He was not French a Corsican and even he was French, the idea of French racism is silly, because there is no French race. Some of them are German origined, some are Celtic origined and the rest is Latin. I even do not mention the Basques, Britons or Corsicans.

Independence for last mentioned three nations (especially Basques) and also to Normandia.

[thediplomat]

temujin said:

thediplomat said:

Then could you pelase correct them?

Let us debate then...

first of all, Napoleon was not small, he was of pretty much average height.

1 - French boys were only conscripted in 1814 when the combined armies of Europe marched on French territory. boys also served in the Prussian Landwehr (milita) for example, so it was not uncommon. there never was an organized youth-movement comparable to the Hitler youth.
2 - Napoleon did not immediately kill those prisoners of war, in fact he released them on letting them swear an oath never to fight the French again, but they disobeyed this oath and when they were captured the second time, they were immediately executed. this behaviour (releasing of prisoners against oath) was common back then, one famous example is French General Lefevre-Desnouettes who was captured in Spain in 1809, broke his oath and fled from britain to fight again at Waterloo.
3 - Germany invaded the Soviet Union for Lebensraum (living space), Napoleon never intended extermination and colonisation of Russia.
4 - Italy was a normal sattelite of France like Holland, Germany and French controlled Spain, i don't know what you mean with "economic colony". Italy wasn't economically strong during Napoleons time.
5 - i wonder where you got the idea that Napoleon didn't cared about casualties, or that Hitler was gentle towards women, because he was not. however, Hitler liked animals a lot and decreed laws to protect them.
6 - it is really common, nothing special about that. btw i don't think Hitler knew much history, if any, he knew German history only...
7 - this is not Hitlers motto, this was the title of the German national anthem, much older than Hitler...

First of all, Napoleon was 1 metre 57 cms. Igf you think it is pretty much average, i think you are refering to the average length of French women at that time ;D

1- French boys were trained in use of arms after Napoleon became the first consul, not in 1814 for a patriotic defence of motherland.

2-what kind of an oath is that? how could a militray general let thousands of enemy soldiers go just based on an oath? I knew history was an invention. But i would expect more challanging comments from you.

3- If Napoleon did not intend the colonization of Russia, why did he invade Russia? what fo did hundreds of thousands of soldiers all over Europe die? To see Moscow? To give The Tsar Alexander a godo lesson? come onnnnn
Bro, when he came to Vilnuss, even Polish flags were raised. The reason why the Duchy of Warsaw sent thousands of soldiers for Napoelon's campaign obviously shows that Napoleon would colonize Russia somehow.

4- No, Italy was entirely a different chapter from Spain, Holland, Germany, the other places under Napoleons direct or indrect rule.
Napoleon was even jelous when a French tehcnian went to Italy, thinking that his experiences and knowledge will spread. The trade in italy was encouraged to a large extend Like Ukraine for Germany, Italy was modeled to be an economic colony of France.

5- Just check the number of wars during Napoelon's reign. he did fight in Waterloo, in Acree, in Moscow ...He was a lover of war. A lover of war never care about the causlties..He cares about victory only..Like Hitler.
Hitler was gentle towards Eva Braun,Marta Goebebl, Traudl Junge...etc so on..towards all women around him.

6- History was always Hitlers favourite subject. During his days in Vienna and Munich, he spent a gread deal of time for reading only history. His interest was not only German history though. He knew a great deal about The Ancient Greece, charlemegne, 30 years war, British history and so on.

7- Yeah..But didnt hItler use it often like a motto? Didnt he finish a lot of his speecehs by the closing remark, Deutschland uber alles?

[thediplomat]

admin said:

thediplomat said:

Well, Hitler himself was an admirer of Napoleon .

Did you know that When France fell to Germany, he went to Paris and visited Napoleon's tomb?

Yes I know that very well. Nihâl Atsýz was an admirer of Mustafa Kemâl Atatürk, but Atatürk was mentally very different from Atsýz.

By the way, I wonder how you will reply to Temujin Shad's answers

But did Nihal Atsiz ever come to power? he was even too far from being close...But Hitler came to power like Napoleon. and Power changes a man to a large degree.

I believe my reply to Temujin Shad will satisfy your curiousty

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

We will wait for Temujin Shad to answer your points