|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 7, 2012 12:01:34 GMT 3
No wonder why those skeletons unearthed in early Siberian cultures such as Tagar, Karasuk, etc have different genetic structures.
|
|
|
Post by ancalimon on Dec 11, 2012 19:47:12 GMT 3
That's normal for Turks. Especially if there are different exotic looking people around those Turks. We like to "intermingle" For example for some reason I can't explain, I love women with natural dark blond hair (not red, not black) and blue eyes. (not green, not brown) Other women simply do not excite or stimulate me at all. My options in Turkey is pretty much limited. So I have a natural need for intermingling with other people. ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 1:57:21 GMT 3
I think the modern terms of "Azerbaijani" and "Azeri" needs some explanation here. The first one, and which is in use in Azerbaijan Republic, was invented by Soviet regime in 1936. One can see that during the 1926 census of Soviets, Azerbaijani Turks were only mentioned as "Turks," but it changed to "Azerbaijani" in 1936. In Iran likewise it was the new Pahlavi regime which invented the term of "Azari" and replaced it with "Turk", yet in Iran "Turk" is still the far more popular designation for Azerbaijani Turks. During the period of Russian Empire, Azerbaijani Turks were officially designated as "Tatars", this was admittedly wrong aswell, and Turks of Azerbaijan continued to call themselves as Turks despite the Tatar designation, however it goes to show that both "Azerbaijani" and "Azeri" are really only 20th century terms and has no relation to Turks of Azerbaijan historically. This is accounts of Johann Anton from 1771, pay attention to the fact that he calls Turks of Azerbaijan as "Terekemen" or "Trukhmen". He also describes the same "Terekemens" as nomadic (or rather semi-nomadic). The largely nomadic lifestyle of Azerbaijani Turks during that period is also well recorded in Russian sources from 1800s. TEREKEMENSKIE OR TRUHMENSKIE
They occupy the eastern foot of the Caucasus Mountains, the western shore of the Caspian Sea near Boynaka, Derbent and Utamisha and also own all the southern foothills of the Caucasus Alazan or Kakheti to the Caspian Sea. Their districts there are Cuba, Altipara, Tokuspara, Miskindzhal, Hinakut, Krishbudah Chamakh and all of Shirvan, they all have a common master in the person of Fath Ali Khan, whose tenure extends to Salliana. With the given border following truhmenskie district in the west: Shaka, Caballo, Agdash and Arash, who also have a ruler, now it is Hussain Khan, son of Haji Dzhalabi having a residence in the town of Nukha. www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/Kavkaz/XVIII/1760-1780/Gildenstedt/text8.htmwww.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/Kavkaz/XVIII/1760-1780/Gildenstedt/text6.htmThis is also worth posting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 1:59:47 GMT 3
13th century chronicle of Ajab-Ad-Dunya: "Arran. A blessed place full of benefits: it was the winter seat of the kings / l. 192a /. No other site has as many Turks: they say there are a hundred thousand Turkish horsemen." www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus11/Cudesa_2/frametext.htmIt is worth mentioning that the large-scale settlement of Turkic tribes was still underway during and after that period.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 2:03:01 GMT 3
Another thing is the historical reference of "Türkistan" for lands populated by Azerbaijan Turks, on both sides of Araz river. The same reference we meet in Dede Qorqud, which is geographically centered on lands populated by Azerbaijani Turks. "Yağı görsə yardımlu, Qaçım görsə durumlu, Türkistanın dirəgi." We come across "Türkistanın dirəgi" several times.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 29, 2013 9:25:41 GMT 3
Indeed, calling the Turks of Azerbaijan "Azeris" or "Azerbaijanis" would be something similar to calling the Turks of Turkey "Anatolians".
|
|
|
Post by ancalimon on May 29, 2013 10:24:27 GMT 3
Indeed, calling the Turks of Azerbaijan "Azeris" or "Azerbaijanis" would be something similar to calling the Turks of Turkey "Anatolians". For some reason, people that are not Turks have a tendency to claim these people as not Turkic but Indo-Iranian in origin.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 12:41:15 GMT 3
Some Persian trolls on internet gives you that conclusion? Nonesense. Persians themselves, by large, refer to Azerbaijani Turks as plain "Turk" and see them as just Turks.
If you are talking on a scholar level, that is again either Persians (and all of them being Pan-Iranists), or people that are actually Iranocentrist, the majority of scholars do not have such claims as the whole notion of it is stupid if you see my explanations above.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 14:20:39 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by Azadan Januspar on May 31, 2013 6:26:44 GMT 3
Well apart from your tendency to openly insult everyone which shows some weaknesses, thanks for using the word troll which in turn best describes most of your activities here. And my thanks again for adding some knowledge about Azerbaijan in your recent posts. Of course they are called Azari, Azeri or Azeri Turks. Their language is called Azeri Turkish. But please don't forget a lot of strong biased neologisms in modern areas encompassing Azerbaijan Republic itself and Iran, most prominent of which the very naming of your country instead of region called Arran -which would be a matter of much hotter debate- , South Azerbaijan, etc. the term 'Azeri' would appear way further than those; it is a denonym used and accepted by many countries around the world and as you mentioned earlier and sadly for you Iranians weren't directly responsible of coining it. But I'd like to compliment you and Azerbaijani Republics media propganda designed to brainwash the Azeri of Iran in order to retry to separate that from Iran in accordance to the Pan-turkist idea, that is creating a decent backlash amongst them about the lies making them more willing to go and confront what Pan-turkists say with historical facts! Hence they will become more aware of what is fed to them. To your disappointment I'd like to add mainstream people in Iran are not fan of racist theories like in some neighbouring countries and they are by comparison far more peaceful and multicultural in practice. When it comes to the people of Iran and not the government, you can not find the mass murders of ethnic minorities and hatred towards them, instead you will find their sense of hospitality and unconditional coexsitence with them despite the fact that some of ethnic groups found their way into Iranian lands by invasive migrations, whose amount of devastations sometimes remain unique in history. Still today for somebody being called whatever makes no problem living among Iranians as it would make for you living in some neighboring countries and Iranians should be proud of it. Also I do understand your resentment towards the former regime in Iran, because it didnt let the dream of separating old Iranian region of Azerbaijan happen by the soviet led pan-turkist ideology fuelled movement. Again I m writing this not for you but for international readers of this forum, please if interested go and read for yourselves on topics like 'history of Azerbaijan' 'history of pan-turkism' ' history of Iran' etc.try to find out the issues here yourselves.
You may keep on calling all Iranians as 'Persians' but in practice this is not true. People in Iran are gaining awareness about the reason why some people would like to call all Iranians as Persians just because they speak Persian doesnt make them Persian. And yes Iranians in lack of knowledge mainly caused by many centuries of Arab, Turkish and Mongol rule over them became illetarte about terms saying Turk, but it is changing in more literate mainstream new generations.
Retutrning to our topic I always said that Azeri people are mixture of Turks, Iranians Mongols and Arabs and other locals present there. That's why we observe variety of physical aspects and cultural elements in them. I would like to expand it to some other gions of Iran like Khurasan and even to many regions outside of iran including Today Azerbaijan Republic. So in saying are Azeri poeple of Iran turkic or indo-european I'd say mixture of both.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2013 9:33:17 GMT 3
So what are you talking about? It doesn't seem like it has anything to do with my posts above. I have already explained enough, so I do not need to tell you again that there is no "Azeri" people.
|
|
|
Post by Azadan Januspar on May 31, 2013 13:07:19 GMT 3
Yeah, that would be good scheme for your thesis to follow. Good luck with that
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2013 15:30:56 GMT 3
Still not sure what you are trying to say, so do you disagree with above facts?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 17:32:03 GMT 3
"Their language is called Azeri Turkish."
Correction, its called "Türki" in Iran among its Turk population and others aswell. I believe the main newspaper of Azerbaijani Turks in Iran also uses "Türki" to refer to Azerbaijani Turkish.
And a quote from Shahriyar's "Heydər Babaya Salam", Shahriyar is well known all over Iran.
"Türki dedim oxusunlar özləri, Bilsinnər ki, adam gedər, ad qalar, Yaxşı-pisdən ağızda bir dad qalar."
19-20th century Azerbaijani writers of Russian Empire also used the same term when referring to Azerbaijani Turkish (Türki, Türkicə or Türk dili).
From one of Sabir's satirical works (Tsar period):
"Şiə mollası yazan Türkicə quransa əgər, Mən onun yazdığı qurana yavıq durmayıram, Maşa ilə yapışıb, əl də belə vurmayıram."
|
|
|
Post by ancalimon on Sept 18, 2013 3:53:57 GMT 3
The notion of "Turkification" is a very touchy subject. The enemies of Turks always like calling some Turks not real Turks, but as "Turkified" Greeks, Persians, Kurds, Armenians, Arabs, etc. By reinforcing this "Turkification" concept, you're simply confirming their anti-Turk claims. I think "Turkification of people" is pretty accurate. That's how you become a Turk... But "Indo-Europeanizatin" of people is pretty accurate too. There most probably were many people speaking Turkic among the clergy that invented the first Indo-European language (most probably an old form of Sanskrit). (You see, Sanskrit is a liturgical language that was almost certainly invented by a group of elite people after the invention of writing) The same can be said about Anatolia where many descendants of all the ancient people (Indo-European speakers, Sumerians, Proto-Tigris speakers, etc) that lived here over time must have started to speak Turkic thus becoming "Turkified"
|
|