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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 23, 2006 17:28:05 GMT 3
In Turkey, there is a common idea that the Turkic peoples never ate pork while the Mongols did. I guess this was first put up by Wolfram Eberhard. Is this true? Do Mongols eat pork (I guess yes)? Did the non-Muslim Turks hated pork and didn't eat it? I haven't seen any written evidences of Turks eating pork but I also haven't seen yet any written source which talks about the Turks not eating that. The only two clues I found about the Turks-not-eating-pork theory are these: - There is a small town in Bavaria named Avarbach whose residents are thought to be descendents of the Avars of the Early Middle Age. The Avarbachians are noted with their habit of not eating pork. - According to Islâm, both pork eating an drinking alchohol are harsh sins. Muslim Turks never eat pork because of this but I have seen many pork-non-eater Muslim Turks who drink alcohol. It's known that the pre-Muslim Turks liked drinking a lot. So can this be a clue of the theory that the Ancient Turks didn't eat pork? Please enlighten me
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 23, 2006 18:26:15 GMT 3
The simple reason why the early turks didn't eat pork was that there lifestyle didn't allowed it. Pigs are lazy and don't graze. the turks only had animals that grazed that only natural since you home is a big patch of gras a sea of grass the vast steppes. Pig like normal pigs couldn't survive in those harsh climates.
As for the drinking Pre islamic turks forget about that the islamic turks drink alot of raki. the arabs have more than 50 types of wine including the expensive dadewine the most sweet wine in the world. Originaly alcohol was not forbiddin it was haram(A sin that only afects your self only bad for you) but when the prophet saw that the arabs allways got drunk and got corrupt and allways fought and commited more sins under influence of alcohol. The prophet(sas) beg God to make Alcohol a "real" sins.
As for why the turks don't eat horse meat any more well the islamised turks. horse eating was abolished beacuase thanks to the cavalary so tnx to the horse the muslim ary gained many terrotory and a lot of victories. So out of respect for the animal eating its flesh became sinI never understand why the turks and mongols eated horse flesh the horse is and was the most important animal to them without the horse the nomad wouldn't be nomads they would ge nothing so why eat it I heard they didn't eat the flesh of lengendary horses and burried them.
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Post by tengrikut on Jul 24, 2006 23:49:48 GMT 3
i don!t think that they ate. bec if they had eaten, i would eat pork meat and love it too
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Post by Bor Chono on Jul 25, 2006 10:54:04 GMT 3
Yes, Now Mongols eat pork. Domesticated pig is rare in Mongolia, they are mostly in city areas. I think before Manchu rule there was no pigs, chinese brought pigs. So thats why this called "Hunting Mongol" hehehe ;D I`m sure that everyone ate pork(=pig meat?). Even Nomads had wild pig meat. I heard that some hungry pig ate remains of an holy man(=king?) for Muslims. So from that moment Muslims stoped eating pork. There was old food rules "Some food is not for U" Mongols were non-fish eaters, maybe Turks were non-pig eaters. hehehe.. ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 25, 2006 14:58:56 GMT 3
Thank you Bor Chono; but the picture you posted shows a dish from Sâssânid Irân
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 25, 2006 19:32:29 GMT 3
No Muslims can't eat the flesh of animals that eat meat pigs eat everything
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Post by 123 on Aug 2, 2006 2:30:46 GMT 3
Well, what about wild boars? Mongols used to hunt them. During long-time campaigns mongolians could eat everything adopting to the situation and location!
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 2, 2006 3:13:39 GMT 3
hmm yeah I guess But I was talking in general when I said nomads didn't eat pork or boar what you say was verry rare there was no law forbidding but there was no porjk ever seen a boar in the steppes ;D
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Post by Bor Chono on Aug 7, 2006 16:01:49 GMT 3
Thank you Bor Chono; but the picture you posted shows a dish from Sâssânid Irân Yeah I know! (Sassanian production 7th c) What do U see? looking at this piece of art? There is 3 characters : Pig, 2 headed Lion & Horsemen. -Horsemen & Lion are Hunters, Pig is the meal. So the hunter was hunting a pig then he saw a lion.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 7, 2006 0:23:07 GMT 3
I got a new information: After being defeated by the Umawwids in battle, the Khazar Khan (don't remember his name - sorry ) surrenders to the Arabs and his life is spared only when he promises to convert to Islâm. After this, the Arabs withdraw, leaving two faqihs (religious teacher) to teach Islâm to the khan. When the faqihs say drinking alchohol and eating pork meat are banned in this religion, the khan refuses to obey this rule, saying that "We (the Khazarians) have always loved drinking wine (this is important as he doesn't refer to qïmïz, the traditional nomadic drink) and eating pork meat".
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Post by Jagatai Khan on Sept 17, 2006 21:22:45 GMT 3
What about the wild boar?Maybe steppe people eat it(if there are in steppes).
But does Islam accept eating of it?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 18, 2006 0:13:15 GMT 3
There were boars in the steppes.
Islâm also doesn't allow eating boar meat.
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Post by aca on Sept 18, 2006 15:38:49 GMT 3
I can't agree with this. In most parts of Serbia for example (especially in villages), people still breed pigs in old fashion. That means that they let them graze in the fields or bushes in summer period, closing them behind the fence only during the night. This is being done to minimize food expences. People also let their pigs near the rivers.
I must say that I still believe that the ancient Turks did not eat pigs, not because of grazing, but simply because there was no pigs in the steppe. Maybe just wild boars if there were any at all.
Btw, there is a big diference between pork meat and boar meat, believe me! ;D
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Sept 18, 2006 15:55:52 GMT 3
I got a new information: ...khan refuses to obey this rule, saying that "We (the Khazarians) have always loved drinking wine and eating pork meat". Sources, please
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Sept 18, 2006 15:57:08 GMT 3
Btw, there is a big diference between pork meat and boar meat, believe me! ;D What kind of diference?
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