Origin of this Turkish name?

[raapi]

Can anyone shed some light on the possible roots of this Turkish name: Ürünsak.

I have found out that Ürün is a new Turkish word introduced in 1935 meaning product and the Mongolian equivalent is Üren meaning some sort of fruit. Sak I have discovered could be linked to Kazakh:

''The name Kazakh, both for the people and for the nation itself, is derived from the ancient Turkic words "ka" which means "great" and "sak" which means the name of ancient tribe and the Avestan/Old Persian.'

Sak being of Turkish or Iranic origin...? :

For the word sak (saka) was supposed the etymology from the ancient Iranian verb sak - “to go, flow, run”, and on its base: saka - “running, swift, vagrant, nomadic”.

- from the Turkish verb sak (saq) - “to awake, guard”, and on its base sak - “awake, alert” and sakči - guard, guardian”.

Maybe a link to this:

sakar ~ ET? sakar alında uğursuzluk nişanı ve alnında bu nişan bulunan kimse (xiv) - someone who aims

Please, if anyone can find out more it'd be very welcome! Thanks.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I have to check some ethymological dictionaries for this

[raapi]

Please do! Thanks.

[raapi]

Checked yet?

[BAWIR$AQ]

The name Kazakh, both for the people and for the nation itself, is derived from the ancient Turkic words "ka" which means "great" and "sak" which means the name of ancient tribe and the Avestan/Old Persian

This theory of the ethymology of "Qazaq" is nothing more than a very-very bald attempt to "ancient-ify" the name of Qazaqs.

The social term "qazaq" (free wanderer, adventure-seeker) is first mentioned in Turkic-Arabic diactionary in Egypt in 13th century.

There's a linguistic theory that show that roots probably derive from ancient Turkic word "qazğaq", and have nothing to do with Saka tribes of ancient times.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I could not check it yet, sorry, but I will try it tomorrow.

As far as I know, Qazaq is mentioned in Mahmûd of Kâshghar's Dîwânu Lugâti't-Turk.

[BAWIR$AQ]

admin said:

As far as I know, Qazaq is mentioned in Mahmûd of Kâshghar's Dîwânu Lugâti't-Turk.

I read several sources where it said that the first mention is in the 13th century dictionary.

I am pretty sure that there's no "qazaq" in 11th century Diwani Lugati-Turk.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Today I checked Ýsmet Zeki Eyuboðlu's Türk Dilinin Etimolojik Sözlüðü (Ethymological Dictionary of the Turkic Language) and found this explanation which sounds very logical:

The root of Qazaq is Qaz (a form of Kez/Gez meaning "Wander/Travel". So Qazaq means "(Free) Wanderer/Traveler", just like Yörük (a name given to Anatolian Türkmens) means means "Walker" (Yörü/Yürü means "Walk"), coming to the meaning of "nomad".

You were right; I checked Kâshgharî but I could not find Qazaq there. I also checked Sir Gerard Clauson's An Ethymological Dictionary of Pre-13th Century Turkic but I could not fine Qazaq there too

[Atabeg]

Hmm we have a lot of wanderers like you said yoruk khazak

but don't forget khazar(it's like gezer in modernday turkish

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Yes, it was Qasar or Qazar in Old Turkic (there was no KH sound until the 10th century as far as I know) which really looks like as if it means "Wanderer", but I am not sure if that name was given to them with that specific meaning.

[raapi]

Thanks for all the info about the word Qazaq, but are there any links to the end of it to Ürünsak? It doesn't look like there is, so what about the theory that saqmak (saqci) was to 'guard' in old Turkic? Any expansion of the Urun bit, linked to Mongolian Uren maybe? Thanks for your time Tigin.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

raapi said:

Thanks for all the info about the word Qazaq, but are there any links to the end of it to Ürünsak? It doesn't look like there is, so what about the theory that saqmak (saqci) was to 'guard' in old Turkic? Any expansion of the Urun bit, linked to Mongolian Uren maybe? Thanks for your time Tigin.

Ok, I will check that too.

No problem

[raapi]

thanks!

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I checked it but I could not find anything

Ürün has only one meaning: Product (in Old Turkic, it only ment agricultural product; later, the meaning got extended to non-agricultural areas).

And Saq-: it means "Hide" so Saqchï would mean "Hider" (=Protector).

[raapi]

Well, thanks for that confirmation on my two theories - helpful. Cheers for your time too mate