Jamugha's background?

[Bor Chono]

admin said:

And what does the prefix Ja- stands for?

I don`t know
Maybe he is from Jadaran tribe.

[odbayarb2000]

I recall Jamukh and Temujin stayed at Toghrul khan's camp at some point of their youth. I reason that it must be before the death of Esukhei. Toghrul, Esukei, and Jamukh's families must have been close.

Jamukh is described to be wise and witty. At some point he was called Jamukh the wise. I think Jamukh was sure of his doom in the late years of his rivalry against Temujin. That's maybe the reason why his actions are so confused and aimless.

[nomadi]

Jamukha was Khan. His name is Gur Khan

Temujin = Chinggis Khan

Jamukha = Gur Khan

Pls Call him Gur khan not Jamukha = Ugly

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Gür Qan was his title, not his name

[nomadi]

Yes title. Sorry

[snafu]

Feb 25, 2009 6:06:36 GMT 3 odbayarb2000 said:

I recall Jamukh and Temujin stayed at Toghrul khan's camp at some point of their youth. I reason that it must be before the death of Esukhei. Toghrul, Esukei, and Jamukh's families must have been close.

Actually a lot of that had to do with steppe custom. Temuchin and Jamukha both became vassals of Toghrul, and vassals are usually required to live in the camp of their lord as servants, at least for some period of time. The Secret History makes no mention of it but I'm assuming Temuchin spent quite a bit of time with Toghrul early on. Unfortunate that Toghrul eventually turned on him, but when you look at Toghrul's history it seems he was a very treacherous person.

Jun 18, 2009 12:29:36 GMT 3 H. İhsan Erkoç said:

Gür Qan was his title, not his name

I always thought it was odd that Jamukha took that title. I assumed it was only used the the Khara Khitai kings. But Toghrul Khan's uncle was also a Gurkhan. I wonder if Jamukha was trying to claim some kind of Kerait leadership, or calling himself the heir to the Kerait's former empire (which included the Mongols). It might've been meant as a put-down to Temuchin.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

It seems like it was a generally used and accepted title among Turks and Mongols of that region at that time.

[mig007]

At the BBC documentary, it was said that Jamukha was captured and killed, by breaking his back. How is it possible?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

He wasn't captured by Temüjin's men, he was delivered to Temüjin by two of his own commanders who expected to receive prizes for that. Of course Temüjin had them executed at the spot because of their treachery. He also told Jamuqa that he forgave him and that they could be friends and allies again, but Jamuqa replied that he knew himself and he would do the same stuff again, so he asked Temüjin to have himself executed, but in the "way of the nobles" so that his sould would watch over Temüjin and become his servant-protector. Temüjin granted Jamuqa his wish and he was executed by his back being broken, but how exactly that was done is not described. Blood of noble and holy people was a taboo for the Mongols so the Mongols always did executions of such people in ways that their bloods were not spilled. Another well-known example of this is the execution of the high shaman Kököchü, who was killed by one of Chinggis Qan's men in a wrestling match - Kököchü's back was broken and he died.

[mig007]

Yes, I knew that costume fo not spilling blood. I imagine that breaking back is very difficult. In Europe it was the opposite, a nobleman should be beheaded, the non-blood spilling (hanging or stranling) was dishonorous.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Yes, unfortunately neither the Secret History of the Mongols nor Jami al-Tawarikh give any detailed descriptions of how it was done.