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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 11, 2006 20:58:00 GMT 3
I think the Mongol Empire has not ended yet... I am waiting the second chosen one who will be born with blood in his hand...
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Post by tengrikut on Aug 12, 2006 0:49:24 GMT 3
some says all steppe states are continuation of each other that ruled by different dynasties. so they add ottoman empire to Hun Khanade. i don't see Ottoman and Seljuk states to steppe states, but some says. Interesting theory. But I agree with you on Ottoman empire. I don't know much about the Seljuks even though my grandma is a Sartuul. Hope to find out more about the Sartuuls from this forum. Seljuks were the same. maybe worse then ottomans. they were under persian culture and they saw nomadic turks as a gruop between citizens and slaves. both of them used us only in wars!
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Post by Saran on Aug 12, 2006 11:46:40 GMT 3
I think the Mongol Empire has not ended yet... I am waiting the second chosen one who will be born with blood in his hand... I also wish to see the second one too. But no one has been reported to to be born with blood in his hand till now, we need to wait
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Post by Saran on Aug 12, 2006 11:48:39 GMT 3
Seljuks were the same. maybe worse then ottomans. they were under persian culture and they saw nomadic turks as a gruop between citizens and slaves. both of them used us only in wars! Thanks for the info. So Seljuks=Sartuuls have some Persian blood? Oh, no!
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 12, 2006 13:50:44 GMT 3
Seljuks were the same. maybe worse then ottomans. they were under persian culture and they saw nomadic turks as a gruop between citizens and slaves. both of them used us only in wars! Thanks for the info. So Seljuks=Sartuuls have some Persian blood? Oh, no! No not Persian blood. And they were better than Ottomans I think. At least they said that they were Turks, but Ottomans did not...
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Post by tengrikut on Aug 12, 2006 16:16:38 GMT 3
Seljuks were the same. maybe worse then ottomans. they were under persian culture and they saw nomadic turks as a gruop between citizens and slaves. both of them used us only in wars! Thanks for the info. So Seljuks=Sartuuls have some Persian blood? Oh, no! no never persian blood. but they gave control to persians. and persian culture and language became more dominant. but never mixed. also, seljuk people were mostly nomadic Turkmens. and they just used nomads as soldiers and a big stable that full of sheep that they can use whenever they want. and they did it with high taxes.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 12, 2006 16:42:42 GMT 3
The House of Seljuk ( Selchük or Salchuq in Turkic, Seljûq in Arabic, Salchûq in Persian) was nothing different from their Türkmen subjects back in the early and mid-11th century. However, especially towards the half of the second half of the 11th century, the ruling dynasty adopted the Islâmic sedentary life style while they became heavily influenced by Persian culture. However, their Türkmen subjects were not The Seljûqids used Arabic and Persian as their "official language" (meaning that every written thing was written in those languages, but they still spoke Turkish). The post-Seljûqid Turkish dynasties, including the Ottomans, used Turkish in writing too. Indeed, it was in the late 13th century when Anatolian Turkish became a written language written with the Arabic script (eventhough the Qarakhanids were already writing Turkish with that script, the Seljûqids did not).
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 12, 2006 22:14:32 GMT 3
the seljuk were the first stable monarhie
this means they were settled but still almost only used steppe warefare only horses.
they mixed but you know stuff happens but not as much that you could say that they were like modernday turkish people(not all of them)
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 14, 2006 1:14:40 GMT 3
The Uyghurs had become sedentary before the Seljûqids.
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 15, 2006 2:39:06 GMT 3
The Uyghurs had become sedentary before the Seljûqids. yeah but I thought only as iron workers for chinese right?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 15, 2006 21:46:42 GMT 3
The Blue Turks were called ironsmiths of the Rouran (Juan-juan).
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Post by kokturk on Sept 19, 2006 0:56:43 GMT 3
Seljuks were the same. maybe worse then ottomans. they were under persian culture and they saw nomadic turks as a gruop between citizens and slaves. both of them used us only in wars! Thanks for the info. So Seljuks=Sartuuls have some Persian blood? Oh, no! Dear Saran, Sartuul means trader. In Chinggis Hagan's era, this word was used to define Muslim Turkics of Turkestân(You can see this word in "Mangholun Nigucha Tobchagan") . In modern era, this word is used to define townspeople of Turkestân. So, Sartuuls have nothing to do with Seljuks.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 19, 2006 2:28:59 GMT 3
Well Sart had a larger useage actually, it included all the sedentary merchant townspeople of Western Turkistân (both Turks and Iranic).
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Sept 19, 2006 3:11:19 GMT 3
The khanates of Crimea, Qazan, Astrakhan and Sibir were founded by families that were once vassals of the so-called "Golden Horde". However, even though they later prepared fake family trees taking their origins back to Chinggis Khan, they were actually not of his descend. I disagree. Dynasties that founded later khanates were Chingissid in origin, they originated from the sons of Jochi - Batu, Orda-Ejen, Sheyban, Tuka-Timur, etc. Any of them could be an eligible candidate for the Golden-Hordian throne. How can you support the claim that they created "fake family trees"? Timur-e-Lenk ruled mostly sedentary and heavily Islamicized Turks and Mongols in Mawarannahr, but even he could not claim to be a Chingissid, because it was that strict. And in Dasht-i Qipchaq the old nomadic traditions and the heirdom of Chingissids were even more stronger and conservative.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 19, 2006 20:31:08 GMT 3
Is that true? I know the khans of Üzbeks and Qazaqs were real Chinggisids but I have some doubts about the successor khanate families of the Golden Horde.
Teymür Ulughbek also prepared family tress showing himself as a relative of Chinggis Khan, eventhough they were from different tribes.
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