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Post by BAWIR$AQ on May 9, 2007 8:52:59 GMT 3
Raqımjan QOŞQARBAEV - Kazak soldier who raised the victory flag over Reichstag On April 30, 1945, lieutenant Raqımjan Qoşqarbaev and corporal Grigory Bulatov of the 674th rifle regiment were one of the first Soviet soldiers who entered the German parliament Reichstag and raised the Soviet flag there. On the photo: Heroes of the Battle of Berlin in front of the captured Reichstag, German parliament, 1945: M. Kantaria, M. Yegorov, R. Qoşqarbaev, and S. Neutroev On the photo: Raqımjan Qoşqarbaev with the German journalist Jan Kokoshko, 1964
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Post by balamir on May 11, 2007 17:07:00 GMT 3
I want to play a Call of Duty:Legion Turkestan!
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Post by nisse on May 11, 2007 17:19:48 GMT 3
hahah, that will never happen
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Post by arslan on Sept 6, 2007 7:12:27 GMT 3
Instead of glorifying these traitors you should have better discussed millions of USSR Turks who proudly fought against Nazism.
For instance Kazakhs were the 3d ethnicity in the USSR (after Russians and Ukrainians) by number of the heroes of the Soviet Union. The star of the hero of the Soviet Union was the highest and most prestigeous military decoration of the Soviet Union.
All these "Turkish legionairs" and other BS was a tiny minoriry compare to the number of Turkic soldiers fighting in the Red Army.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Sept 6, 2007 14:43:49 GMT 3
Instead of glorifying these traitors you should have better discussed millions of USSR Turks who proudly fought against Nazism. For instance Kazakhs were the 3d ethnicity in the USSR (after Russians and Ukrainians) by number of the heroes of the Soviet Union. The star of the hero of the Soviet Union was the highest and most prestigeous military decoration of the Soviet Union. All these "Turkish legionairs" and other BS was a tiny minoriry compare to the number of Turkic soldiers fighting in the Red Army. Well, you dont have to glorify Third Reich army, and not even accept that, but Red Army was much worse.
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Post by Temüjin on Sept 6, 2007 16:21:36 GMT 3
Instead of glorifying these traitors you should have better discussed millions of USSR Turks who proudly fought against Nazism. For instance Kazakhs were the 3d ethnicity in the USSR (after Russians and Ukrainians) by number of the heroes of the Soviet Union. The star of the hero of the Soviet Union was the highest and most prestigeous military decoration of the Soviet Union. All these "Turkish legionairs" and other BS was a tiny minoriry compare to the number of Turkic soldiers fighting in the Red Army. traitors? one could argue that soldiers who fight for the empire that subdued them (=Russians) are traitors. i don't say fighting for the Nazis is good, but fighting for Communism isn't good either.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Sept 6, 2007 18:08:29 GMT 3
Instead of glorifying these traitors you should have better discussed millions of USSR Turks who proudly fought against Nazism. For instance Kazakhs were the 3d ethnicity in the USSR (after Russians and Ukrainians) by number of the heroes of the Soviet Union. The star of the hero of the Soviet Union was the highest and most prestigeous military decoration of the Soviet Union. All these "Turkish legionairs" and other BS was a tiny minoriry compare to the number of Turkic soldiers fighting in the Red Army. traitors? one could argue that soldiers who fight for the empire that subdued them (=Russians) are traitors. i don't say fighting for the Nazis is good, but fighting for Communism isn't good either. Good and neutral opinion.
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Post by arslan on Sept 6, 2007 23:34:35 GMT 3
traitors? one could argue that soldiers who fight for the empire that subdued them (=Russians) are traitors. i don't say fighting for the Nazis is good, but fighting for Communism isn't good either. You are very mistaken if you think that Turks in the Red Army fought "for Communism." My grandfather for example was a mullah and was very anti communist. Yet he fought in the Red Army and ended up in Berlin. He would never say that he fought for "Communism." He is also very proud to be a victor. It's the fact that a lot of people of the USSR thought that Germans would bring liberation from the Communism in the begining of the war. However, Nazist didn't care so much about that. You know how many Soviet Pows died in captivity in 1941-42, hundred of thousands of them were Turks? They believed German promises and suffered from that. Nazist viewed all the population of USSR as "subhumans." Yes, base on the principle "divide and empero" they attracted some Turkic nationalists only to make them the paws in their game. Most of the Turks, veterans of WWII from the Red Army would never accept those people who fought together with Nazists. May 9, the victory day over Germany is the national holiday in most of the former Turkic republics of the USSR. In fact, it was even more Russian traitors in different German formations than Turks. Turks fought for life, for future for their children and for their fartherland (not perfect, but still fatherlan which was USSR) and they proudly won the war.
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Post by Temüjin on Sept 7, 2007 0:01:51 GMT 3
well, it is obvious you like the Red Army because it was victorious in the end. but it's a fact that Turkestan was occupied by Russia in the 19th century.
yes, nazis regared everyone non-Germanic as subhumans, but is that view much different from that of the Russians toward the Central Asian people? do you think Russians thought of the native people of Turkestan as equal to themselves?
something Red Army fetishist forget is that this much celebrated 9th may victory ended the freedom of all of Eastern Europe and brought the baltic states and Ukraine again under Russian overlordship.
if Turks would have fought for their fatherland, they should have fought against USSR, and that doesn't automatcially mean fighting for Nazis. look at the Ukrianian ressistance movement who fought for Ukraine (fatherland) against both Wehrmacht and Red Army. USSR was not the fatherland of your grandfather. in that case the 3. Reich would have been the fatherland of Czechs and Poles.
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Post by arslan on Sept 7, 2007 0:38:28 GMT 3
Sorry, my friend, you seem to be extremely antirussian. Let me decide, who are my friends and enemies by myself. Ok
That's one thing.
The second thing is that you shouldn't thing that all the Soviet or Russian Turks etc. Hate Russians so much. Yes, the past is bitter.
But, do you think, I should hate all the Russians for what Tsars did to my people centuries ago? Or should all the Russians hate me (I'm Tatar) what Golden Horde had beem doing to them for 300 years?
The truth is that Russia now is a multiethnic state, where a lot of people of different ethnicities live with complicated history. But I, as well as my farther consder this land our fatherland, the same as many other Tatars, Bashkirs etc.
You shouldn't forget that Russia is in fact a political successor of the Golden Horde. And role of Turks and particularly Tatars in the Russian Empire was enormous.
Concerning the Central Asia, yes, Russian imperialists did a lot of bad things. But again, it wasn't always black and white, like you think. And secondly, Russians didn't plan total extermination, assimilation and enslavization as Nazist did.
I love Russian people, and I din't have any bad experience with them, I have a lot of Russian friends and there a lot of mixed Russian-Tatar families. Even the recent boxing monster Alexander Valuev is from such a family.
In fact Russian empire, like Ottoman empire was a truly multi ethnic state.
At the same time, I am not denying my Turkic heritage and proudly thing about our glorious history.
And my grandfather despite still consider his Russian army comrades as brothers, they frequently visit him and he visits them. In fact, a Russian fellow saved his life once.
Concerning the Ukrainian national movement, it's also very complicated. But you should note that it was spread only in the Western Ukraine. Why? Because it was a result of the communist policies in the Western Ukraine like collectevization, atheism etc. BS. All the rest of Ukraine already experienced that much earlier.
That's why most of the Ukrainians also fought in the Red Army. But I can't critisize Western Ukrainians, unlike the people mentioned earlier, they really fought for their homeland and ideals.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 7, 2007 0:48:41 GMT 3
You are a new member and all of your posts are either offensive or just political propaganda.
You should know that Russia is among the worst enemies of Turkic peoples. If you are a Turk, you can not like Russian policies. If you do, it means that you are not a real Turk.
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Post by arslan on Sept 7, 2007 0:51:45 GMT 3
something Red Army fetishist forget is that this much celebrated 9th may victory ended the freedom of all of Eastern Europe and brought the baltic states and Ukraine again under Russian overlordship. Yes. You better tell me how much millions of Poles and Chezch Nazist killed just before that "freedom" was taken from them. Yes, Eastern European nations were politically oppressed by the USSR. But USSR didn't want to exterminate Slavics and other ethnicities as inferior races or make them slaves like Germany wanted.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 7, 2007 0:53:59 GMT 3
Both Nazi Germany and USSR were evil forms of states.
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Post by arslan on Sept 7, 2007 0:56:32 GMT 3
You are a new member and all of your posts are either offensive or just political propaganda. You should know that Russia is among the worst enemies of Turkic peoples. If you are a Turk, you can not like Russian policies. If you do, it means that you are not a real Turk. I think you are propaganding smth. here. I have a right for my own opinion. You think I should hate the state where I was born and which didn't harm me personally in anyway? Or you thing to be a Turk means hate Russians? And I don't agree with you anyway Russia is not among "the worst enemies of Turkic people." It's your own opinion and you shouldn't impose in on others. Hate is not the way for Turks to succed.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 7, 2007 1:10:15 GMT 3
You think I should hate the state where I was born and which didn't harm me personally in anyway? It wasn't your state at all, it was a Russian state imperialisticly ruling over non-Russian peoples and imposing Russian cultural imperialism over Caucasia and Central Asia. I see from you that they have managed it very well. Or you thing to be a Turk means hate Russians? Yes. And I don't agree with you anyway Russia is not among "the worst enemies of Turkic people." It's your own opinion and you shouldn't impose in on others. You should get some lessons from history. Hate is not the way for Turks to succed. Loving Russians and spreading their propaganda aren't either.
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