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Post by Temüjin on Aug 24, 2006 22:23:28 GMT 3
there are no genealogical records left from earlier periods. to claim that he was of Hun origin is either ignorance or propaganda. that's not true. German nobles are not like Finnish nobles. von Sternberg family originates from Austria, there is nothing Estonian about them. Hohenzollern castle is just a couple of kilometers away from me, i have visited the castle really often and i can tell you a big deal about the genealogical background of the Hohenzolelrn family and ic an assure you 100% that Hohenzolelrn family is 100% NOT Prussian. Hohenzolerln family of Prussia belongs to the Frankonian line which originally ruled as counts over Nürnberg castle when they were appointed by the Emperor to rule Brandenburg. Brandenburg eventually acquired the duchy of Prussia from Poland and because it was outside teh borders of the HRE it was possible to make it a kingdom. Brandenburg was only an electorate and couldn't become a kingdom because the empeor was als king of germany and there was no possibility to create another kigndom within germany. therefore, Elector Frederick III. of Brandenburg managed to make Prussia a kingdom and then styled himself King of Prussia and all of the lands of the Hohenzollern were then known as Prussia but baltic Prussia in fact was only a really small part of the whole country. Hohnezollern family is of course not Swabian because all noble families marry with pricnesses of other royal houses, Wilhelm II for example was grandson of teh BRitish Queen Victoria. but i can assure you the Hohenzolelrn family did 100% NEVER marry any native Prussians. not to mention that they never were Prussian in the first place. for you it maters a lot apparently, otherwise you wouldn't claim that reputable German noble families were Baltic or Estonian! Himmler was 100% catholci bavarian and Baltic Germans were all Protestants after the Reformation. what you say is complete nonsense, it would be like claiming Nadir Shah was Persian just because he ruled Iran!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 24, 2006 22:45:13 GMT 3
It would be nice if we would keep our respectful style just like we did always in this forum
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Aug 24, 2006 23:59:15 GMT 3
It would be nice if we would keep our respectful style just like we did always in this forum You are right. Though it would be boring if everyone just would agree about everything, but main thing is that debate should stay civilized and polite. I'll answer to Temujin when I can concentrate better (Night is not the best time to write debate-things. ;D) and have more time...
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Post by Bor Chono on Aug 25, 2006 13:21:08 GMT 3
I heard that he was followed by famouse Cossack Atamans(=Bosses?).
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Aug 25, 2006 15:08:26 GMT 3
I heard that he was followed by famouse Cossack Atamans(=Bosses?). Yes, Grigori Semjonov, Ataman of Trans-Baikal Cossacks, was his friend and in start of civil war they worked together. Semjonov was half-Burjat, btw.
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 25, 2006 20:27:07 GMT 3
in fact many famous Cossack leaders were ethnic Germans, such as generals Tettenbron and Benkendorff in Napoleonic Wars & generals Wrangel and Ungern-Sternberg during Russian Civil War. I might make some posts about Cossacks soon but next week i will be in Turkey.
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Post by Bor Chono on Aug 28, 2006 7:08:26 GMT 3
Thank you for the info He seems to be a mad-man. What do you think? Well..yes. I think there is a little difference between Crazy man & Genius. The crazyness of Baron Ungern & Adolf Hitler was they were in hurry. They hurried very much. Baron Ungern did not finish it job in Mongolia -I mean it didn`t conqured it whole & didn`t become powerful enough. He just hurried collect Mongol troops (he used force) & went to fight with Reds.
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Post by Bor Chono on Sept 3, 2006 4:00:58 GMT 3
More about me: -I smoke and drink I think U better to stop drinking because Baron Ungern hated drinkers. At his time our capital city was full of drunken ppl. I heard he was throwing them into cold waters of Tuul river.(=river located in south).
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Sept 3, 2006 15:55:00 GMT 3
More about me: -I smoke and drink I think U better to stop drinking because Baron Ungern hated drinkers. At his time our capital city was full of drunken ppl. I heard he was throwing them into cold waters of Tuul river.(=river located in south). Well, drinking is quite big problem here. Truth is that Helsinki is the only capitol city in EU where you can see streets full of drunken people in every night.
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Post by horka on Sept 7, 2006 14:14:50 GMT 3
That terror was not against Mongolian people, but against harmful minorities like jews, chinese (What those nations did in Mongolia anyway?). My family knows one Jew!(=Mother`s friend) He took a Mongol wife & live in Mongolia -I don`t know about his job, I guess work with a lot of money. He seemed nice person. hehehe.. I heard that, Mongols had to pay much money to Jew & Chinese tradesmen. Baron killed them & took their money. Mongols found it helpful! hehehe... Do you find this statements of yours amusing? Yes indeed the most easy and handy is to slaughter defenceless people. Cowards do that . And cowards are always defeated.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Sept 8, 2006 12:45:28 GMT 3
Cowards?
What I know, Mongolia (And generally every Uralic-Altaic nations) has always been strong when they had strong leader, who did not afraid to use force and violence.
Genghis used those too and what he did? He built the biggest Empire in Euaasia ever and united his people and made them to feel greatness.
Yes, Ungern slaughtered enemies of Mongolian people, and maybe it was brutal, but I don't condemn that.
My own country got independence after Civil War, where wwe smashed those traitors who were against Independent Finland, and if we would not slaughtered those, then Finland would be now part of russia.
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Post by Bor Chono on Sept 8, 2006 12:49:48 GMT 3
Do you find this statements of yours amusing? Yes indeed the most easy and handy is to slaughter defenceless people. Cowards do that . And cowards are always defeated. Hmm... Horka, horka, horka!?.. -sounds like child or girl name! (what does it mean?) He lost the war. But it doesn`t mean he is a coward. Leader is not a coward. Ppl can say anything about losers. He slaughtered some innocent like ppl. But it doesn`t mean he is a coward. -maybe a Terrorist. Well..ofcourse Terrorists always lose. But Terrorist is not a coward. He killed Jews. Maybe he was a racist. But for me he just followed the Bible way. We all know that in Bible story jews are described as traidors. Cristians call Adolf Hitler as "AntiCrist" but he just followed what was "Right" in Bible. Maybe Baron was a crazy man, but Baron also was high in moral(=a man of honor). COWARD I call ppl who "disact" as "cowards". -last part of word "Coward" is "-ard". In Mongolian lang word "Ard" means "ppl", also it means "in the back". Cowards are ppl who stay in the back. Still our forum has many "Cowards". -Please post your photos!!! Being shy is also Cowardness. -Btw why don`t U post your photo!?
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Post by horka on Sept 8, 2006 19:01:36 GMT 3
Do you find this statements of yours amusing? Yes indeed the most easy and handy is to slaughter defenceless people. Cowards do that . And cowards are always defeated. Hmm... Horka, horka, horka!?.. -sounds like child or girl name! (what does it mean?) He lost the war. But it doesn`t mean he is a coward. Leader is not a coward. Ppl can say anything about losers. He slaughtered some innocent like ppl. But it doesn`t mean he is a coward. -maybe a Terrorist. Well..ofcourse Terrorists always lose. But Terrorist is not a coward. He killed Jews. Maybe he was a racist. But for me he just followed the Bible way. We all know that in Bible story jews are described as traidors. Cristians call Adolf Hitler as "AntiCrist" but he just followed what was "Right" in Bible. Maybe Baron was a crazy man, but Baron also was high in moral(=a man of honor). COWARD I call ppl who "disact" as "cowards". -last part of word "Coward" is "-ard". In Mongolian lang word "Ard" means "ppl", also it means "in the back". Cowards are ppl who stay in the back. Still our forum has many "Cowards". -Please post your photos!!! Being shy is also Cowardness. -Btw why don`t U post your photo!? It seems you have quite limited views on christian religion. There is no such a thing written in the Bible which urges,tells christians to kill jews. The writers of the Bible were jews,the founders of this religion were jews. Can you imagine Jesus leading an army? I rephrase: Can you imagine Budha leading an army? Horka in the Hungarian language had the meaning of general.
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Post by Bor Chono on Sept 9, 2006 7:39:16 GMT 3
It seems you have quite limited views on christian religion. -Maybe! maybe I don`t like new things. There is no such a thing written in the Bible which urges,tells christians to kill jews. Ofcourse there is no such written things. But most mortals in the past understood the Bible story like "Jews betrayed the Lord, it is right to punish them".(U know cartoon "South Park"! -Oh my god they`ve killed Jesus!!! -Bastards!) I think U know that Bible was rewritten again & again, -still perfected. The writers of the Bible were jews,the founders of this religion were jews. Yes founders of early Cristianity was Jews. They wrote the story of Jesus & his ideas. But the real creator of Bible, ppl who mixed, used what was useful (from old gospels?) were Romans(=citizen of Rome) -I would say Roman Emperor claimed himself second man after Jesus(=Pope? is it Papa?=father) or Living God. Early Cristianity was for Jews only, with strict traditions. Some guy changed it & made it for everyone. I don`t think Jesus spoke of Churches, it was Roman idea. Can you imagine Jesus leading an army? I rephrase: Can you imagine Budha leading an army? Well... I can imagine it easly. ;D An army of believers I guess. Horka in the Hungarian language had the meaning of "General". OK! ;D I didn`t knew , that`s my bad. If U introduced yourself in page "General Board"-"Introduce yourself", I`m sure it wouldn`t happen. ;D So U are Hungarian. I heard, before Cristianity Hungarians were shamanists(=Tengrists!? & used to put traveling Cristian priests into wooded barrel and throw it to river, saying "-If U spoke truth, surely your God will help!".-Tell me! was there any survived priest? Back to Topic!!! Baron was fighting against ppl without god. Red Russians said something like : "We don`t need religion we need science, we don`t need Tsar(=king) we need Socialism." Baron lost a war. But I can Say/Admit that some powerful spirit wanted to make Russians religious again. Adolf Hitler was the mess-enger(Mess + anger = Messenger LoL ;D). When Moscow was nearly at siege, Stalin ordered to open the Churches. He needed some Godly help there.
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Sept 17, 2006 0:28:31 GMT 3
I heard about PC game where you can play WWII and one option is Mongolian Empire ruled by Ungern Khan. ;D
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