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Post by Atabeg on Sept 22, 2007 1:23:27 GMT 3
So why did we Convert to Islam
I mean why? what was the reason?
Turks and Mongols who came in contact with the ME
converted to Islam
my second question
what would have happened if we didn't converted to Islam but Christianity what would Islam have looked like would it have survived, would its influence greatly decrees?
Personally at first it was pure politically
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Post by Verinen Paroni on Sept 22, 2007 4:13:39 GMT 3
I dont know about you guys, but I converted to Finnish Shamanism when I went to church and told them that I want to leave that nutsy-church and in same night I took a drunk and burnt bible. Heh...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 22, 2007 14:55:23 GMT 3
So why did we Convert to Islam I mean why? what was the reason? Turks and Mongols who came in contact with the ME converted to Islam This is a big topic, you know. If you want to find an answer for that, you have to examine every different people in detail. For example, Satuq Bughra Khan of the Qarakhanids, according to the legend, converted after meeting a Sâmânid refugee prince, but F. Grenard claimed that he tried to get support from Islamic ghâzî warriors from the frontier for his throne struggle against his uncle. We all know that after becoming the ruler of Qarakhanids, Satuq Bughra Khan tried to forcily convert masses of Turkic tribes under his rule; eventually he did, but not all of them. His successors waged holy wars against the Buddhist Uyghurs of Turfan and Buddhist city-state of Khotan; the Uyghurs started converting to Islam in the 10th century, surely by force because of Qarakhanid pressure, but they did not complete the conversion until the 15th century or something (it continued during the Mongol Ča'adai period too). The Qïpchaqs, for example, also converted during the Golden Horde period, but I don't know how exactly they converted. Meanwhile, the Turkic peoples living on the very north and east of Transoxiana were in close contact with the Muslims for a long time. The Muslim Persian Sâmânids sent large numbers of heterodox Muslim travelling monks (dervishes), who preached Islam to the masses of nomadic Turks in a way which was very similar to their believes (traces of this can be found among Central Asian Muslims, as well as the countrymen Turks of Turkey). So most of the common Turkic folk continued their ancient believes under the name of Islam even after converting to this religion (but those who lived or later settled down in the cities became orthodox muslims). Among these, the Oghuz and Qarluqs are the most well known. Trade also had an important effect on the Islamization of Central Asia, because Turkic and Muslim merchants always exchanged ideas as well as goods (for example, in the legend of Satuq Bughra Khan, that Sâmânid prince and his men arrive to the Qarakhanid territories in the form of traders). Trade was also the most important way how Islam spread on the lands of Khazars and Volga-Kama Bulghars. However, political interests also had key roles sometimes, in the case of Seljuq Beg, who converted to Islam after fleeing to the town of Jand on the border with the Oghuz Yabghu State, in order to get support from the Muslim frontier warriors (but those Türkmens or Muslim Oghuz who joined him later were mostly converts influenced by travelling dervishes or traders). One note: The two theories in Turkey about this topic have no basis at all. The theory of Turkish-Muslim conservative nationalists, claiming that the Turks converted because of the similarities between the two religions, is not true at all, because there are more differences than similarities, plus there are many cases when some Turks converted by the sword. However, the other theory of left-wing supporters and anti-Muslims, claiming that all of the Turks converted by force, is also not true on every example, because there are many many cases when tribes converted on their own will, but in a heterodox way rather than orthodox. So, my point is that, you can not describe the Islamization of the Turkic peoples with just one case or just one theory. my second question what would have happened if we didn't converted to Islam but Christianity what would Islam have looked like would it have survived, would its influence greatly decrees? Of course things would have been much more worser for Islam, because it was the Turks who defended it from the 10th-11th to the early 20th century, starting from the wars with the Roman (Byzantine) Empire up to the First World War. If the Turks had not become Muslims, Islam would have been either completely wiped up, or reduced to a small area in Arabia. Note that there were a lot of Christian Turks too (check that topic)
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Post by Tamr Shayban Iskeri on Jul 27, 2008 17:46:58 GMT 3
Some of the message of the Koran also fits and assists in a militaristic society that fit into the context of life on the steppe and Central Asia. Also if you look closely you will see a more tolerant practice of Islam among the Turkic people in general than in the Middle East. My theory is that tolerance comes from our choosing to convert (Not in All Cases) rather than forced conversion of the tribal Middle East. This allows more of the mystical tradition to be included into the practice of Islam.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshipper, lover of leaving. It doesn’t matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vow a hundred times. Come, yet again, come, come.
Rumi
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Post by mongol194 on Oct 6, 2008 13:28:10 GMT 3
Oooh interesting! My thoughts regarding this matter were simmilar to tamrs view. I think Islam was a faith which was originally a much more simpler way of life. One which would have supported the steppes way of life, however like all religions as Islam evolved it became more stricter. Even as early as the days of the Prophet there were nomadic warriors from the north who were much loved despite thier habbits of Alchohol, debauchery etc......becuase they were very loyal and did not break thier words......unlike some Muslims, converts were often more fanatical as well becuase they were desperadoes who needed an excuse to get at something! ;D
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