Identifying the enemy!!!

[erdene]

I wonder how the steppes warriors identified who was the enemy and who was the friend!!! Like in civil wars...there wasnt such thing as an general uniform for all men...and all wore varying types of armour...unless they tied a band around their arms or heads???

[tengrikut]

maybe everone knows people in their clan, so unknown men are enemy, just an idea...

[erdene]

Larger wars... different tribes.... thousands and thousands of horsemen clashing!

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Yes, I wonder that too. They probably had mottos.

[nanman]

I am very intrigued by this question too. I have no answers to this myself.

Even in modern warfare, it has always occured to me that if there was a war between US and Russia, it would be easy for either side to confuse each other by wearing each other's kit and planting each other's squaddies into each other's view. Causing chaos.

How they monitored this in the old days apart from banners, armory, embroidery and clan recognition really intrigues me.

[erdene]

it has always scared me that I might be killed by my own side or kill my own side! But of course that opportunity will never come my way these days...

[Temüjin]

good question. in case of civil war there was no time to make new "uniforms" anyways. i guess the most plausible idea is that they used different flags or other insignia (armbinds of one colour perhaps).

[Subu'atai]

differences in armor/weaponry perhaps?

[tengrikut]

maybe coat of arms?? i have heart that coat of arms are first used by steppe people

[Temüjin]

if you mean tamga then yes, but tamgas are not very visible...

[harryzhe]

Well i dont know just how much of a problem it would be. The skirmishing tactics of horse archers were quite directed, i think they would be able to see a clear dead ground between their group and the enemy they are peppering with arrows. Also, the more effective and organised armied like those at Carrhae would take turns firing and then falling back while others released their arrows (creating a constant stream) so that says to me that each group of archers would be quite tuned-in to what their comrades are doing. Furthermore, To my knowledge, the cavalry would only charge when the enemy formation was broken by the repeated arrow harassment. So i think they would have a fair idea of what each element of their force were doing.

My point is of course, while this could be a problem in battles with predominantly melee combat, like hellenic or roman warfare, or battles with lots of scattered men hiding about the place, as in modern warfare or the civil war, I don't think it would have posed as much of an issue with the formation-based missile combat of the old days. The very idea of the horse archer is to avoid "the fray," and simply harass the enemy until he gives up and goes home, or is weakened enough to break with a single charge.
I'd say that standard bearers would have been used for good measure (if i remember correctly parthian standards were carried in the centre of the formations)

[Bor Chono]

Mar 26, 2008 15:40:15 GMT 3 erdene said:

it has always scared me that I might be killed by my own side or kill my own side! But of course that opportunity will never come my way these days...

Hey Erdene! this question is not so right!
A QUESTION!!!
How are U going to show yourself as Buryat Mongol!?
With your "HAT"! ofcourse! ;D

Maybe all 4 Mongols wear same deel(=coat) but they must wear different hats.

[Nomad (Daz)]

I agree with Bor Chono about hats. We should not go too far. Lets look a AMERICAN Indians. They had different hairstyle and headwear. In Greece(Acient Times) every City had its own uniq helmet and a picture on a shield. (Shield had even different shapes). Armour I think was the same. I kill Bor Chono and take his amour but Shield and helmet will be different.
Sometimes shield is a family relic which is passed down the generation and helmet handmade by family so the spirits of the ancestors will protect its descendant. Thats more logical.

[elbandito]

I think they recognized the enemies by the banners they rallied into, or by their war cries. Mongols will scream "Uuuuukhaaaiiiii" or sumthing like that.

[mongol194]

When i spent time in turkestan we learned various battle signal tactics. As previously pointed out warriors in small clans knew each other but in big scale battles some nations in the mongol/turkic armys for example didn't even speak the same language mercenaries were also a problem. They overcame this in many ways.
1) Tribes could use individual banners or clothing which would encomposs some sort of sybol or colour,red for example. this method still requires skill and some complex training.
2) Nomadic armies often used smoke signals to layout the battle fields limits as well as to relay signals. Seljuck warriors would also charge into battle with leading squads carrying flaming torches to scare enemies and as rallying points to follow into battle.
3) individual warriors could apply similar hair styles to each tribe and even use paint pigments on thie body or armour as well as hairstyles.
4) Warriors can also chant slogans like football fans saluting leaders or beseeching gods, the 4th crusade is a classical example becuas by that time both saracens (Arabs and turks) as well as crusaders had adopted simmilar armour and symbols on thier heraldric crests. so the opposing sides used chants and slogans to differentiate.
5)Most big battles were basically made up of lots of little battles between factions mongols especially would seek out personal quarrells with various factions on the enemy side and since most soldiers know thier enemy you had loads of death squads roaming the field seeking out personall grudges take the battle of the kalka river for example many mongol elite warriors deliberatly went out looking for the wel dressed russian princes who made easy targets since they weren't that hard to spot.
Anyway these are techniques i'm familliar with but they all need training and timing. The famous steppe fake retreat trick is harder than you think. The seljuks and chinese tried it with disastrous effects on several occasions becuase their armies took the moves too seriously and actually legged it without stopping!