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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 24, 2007 23:31:43 GMT 3
Where you got this information from?Because all are lie,Ottomans were protectors of Cossacks.They defended them against Lithunians. Ah no, there were man Cossack raids to the Ottoman Black Sea coasts, especially in the 17th century. Even the northern parts of Ýstanbul, like Bebek and Sarýyer, were raided and pillages by Cossack shaykas.
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Post by Temüjin on Feb 25, 2007 1:30:35 GMT 3
Oh, I see. But how do you know if it is a Circassian flag? As far as I know, Circassians were Muslims by 19th century. Why would they carry the flag with a cross? don't know, but Zaporozhian Cossacks also had flags with Cross & Crescents even though they were not Muslim. and this definately does not look like a Don Cossack flag. Zaporozhian Cossack flags with some Crescent & Star
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Feb 25, 2007 11:03:03 GMT 3
Well, crescents were used by contemporary Polish, too. At time, it wasn't viewed as strictly Islamic symbol. But I doubt Muslims ever used crosses, especially in 19th century.
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Post by balamir on Feb 25, 2007 14:53:49 GMT 3
Where you got this information from?Because all are lie,Ottomans were protectors of Cossacks.They defended them against Lithunians. Ah no, there were man Cossack raids to the Ottoman Black Sea coasts, especially in the 17th century. Even the northern parts of Ýstanbul, like Bebek and Sarýyer, were raided and pillages by Cossack shaykas. Ok 1 is true ;D When they raided us?We ever battled them?
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Post by Temüjin on Feb 25, 2007 17:04:11 GMT 3
Well, crescents were used by contemporary Polish, too. At time, it wasn't viewed as strictly Islamic symbol. But I doubt Muslims ever used crosses, especially in 19th century. on the picture by the younger Kossak you can see some of the soldiers having their Kinjals between theri teeth, this is typical for Circassians:
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Feb 25, 2007 21:37:50 GMT 3
Ottomans were protectors of Cossacks.They defended them against Lithunians. There's a popular legend in both Ukraine and Russia about Zaporozhian Cossacks who received a letter from the Turkish sultan demanding a surrender and submission, and then answered the sultan with the profane letter full of insults. Famous Russian painter Ilya Repin wrote a painting called "Zaporozhian Cossacks write a reply to the Turkish Sultan"[Click to enlarge]The text of the letter correspondence can be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 26, 2007 0:12:09 GMT 3
Ok 1 is true ;D When they raided us?We ever battled them? That would take some time for me to look and my books and reply
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Post by Temüjin on Feb 26, 2007 0:23:53 GMT 3
i would also be interested to know
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 26, 2007 0:36:26 GMT 3
Ok, I will do some research later and inform you guys
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Post by trout11 on Apr 3, 2008 22:43:45 GMT 3
The reason for the Crescent and Christian cross being on the same flag was to designate the alliance between the Zaprozhian cossacks and the Khan's Tartar's. Understand that the joint alliance was to show unity and brotherhood between the two factions. This first appeared during the rebellion with Bohdan Chmelnitsky's time. You will see this even in some of the movie's which are made this decade, especially With "Fire and Sword". Another possible scenario could be that there were cossacks who practiced Muslim relegion. But proof of that is scarce because of the strong evidence of Christianity within cossack voisko's.(Just a thought). Also there was a large Jewish population as well, which is also depicted on the flags.. Allies were valuable!!! Very Valuable!! and carrying the banner into battle to represent all was by far important!! And the cossacks saw to it.. Oh, I see. But how do you know if it is a Circassian flag? As far as I know, Circassians were Muslims by 19th century. Why would they carry the flag with a cross? don't know, but Zaporozhian Cossacks also had flags with Cross & Crescents even though they were not Muslim. and this definately does not look like a Don Cossack flag. Zaporozhian Cossack flags with some Crescent & Star
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 8, 2008 22:18:39 GMT 3
Greetings Trout11, welcome aboard
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Post by sarmat on Apr 13, 2008 5:25:14 GMT 3
The use of crescent moon by Orthodox Christians to whom belonged Zaporozhian cossacks for symbolic purposes was common and has nothing to do with Islam.
Crescent moon is in fact the symbol of Virgin Mary in Christian symbolism.
In fact, the crescent moon was the state emblem of Byzantium adopted in the 7th century AD, long before the Islamic Crescent moon bacame famous. It looked like a red flag with white star and crescent moon which also sympolized Virgin Mary.
Traditional orthodox crosses in Russia and Urkaine as a rule include crescent moon as a part of their desing.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 13, 2008 11:50:20 GMT 3
Actually, the crecent-and-star or crescent-and-moon were rather universal symbols, because for example the pre-Islamic Iranians and Ancient Turks also used them, as can be seen from the coins. It was the Seljuqid Turks who introduced the crescent-and-star into the Islamic world during the 11th century (the earliest useage of it as a religious symbol was made during the Seljuqid conquest of Ani in Armenia).
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Post by sarmat on Apr 13, 2008 20:36:56 GMT 3
Yes. I just meant that Cossacks used the crescent because it was a rather common symbol in their culture, not because the adopted it from Ottomans or Crimean Tatars.
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Post by Temüjin on Apr 13, 2008 23:50:42 GMT 3
yeah but it still doesn't explain why it prominently features on Cossack flags. maybe its due to tatar influence.
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