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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 21, 2006 14:38:35 GMT 3
Does anyone know anything about the Argippae Saka? Is it true that they were ruled by "Wise Shamans" as A.Z.K. Togan points out? Did they live in Central Tianshan?
What does the name Argippae mean? From which language is it?
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Sept 21, 2006 23:14:37 GMT 3
Where does Togan mention it? Let me read it...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 21, 2006 23:54:52 GMT 3
Sorry, I corrected the name; it was Argippae, not Amirgoi.
He talks about them in the 26th-27th pages of his book Umumî Türk Tarihi'ne Giriþ (Introduction to General Turkic History), in the 1981 Ýstanbul edition.
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Sept 22, 2006 21:36:55 GMT 3
Ok I will wirte when I read it. Sorry I am quite busy and sleepeless these days, you know qaghan
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Post by sharrukin on Dec 4, 2006 4:57:24 GMT 3
The only original extant notice we have of the Argippaei is in Herodotus (4.23-24):
1. neighbors to the Apostate Scythians 2. lived in the foothills of high mountains 3. both males and females were bald from birth 4. located east of the Apostate Scythians 5. have snubbed noses and long beards 6. had their own language 7. wore Scythian clothing 8. food of fig-like form came from trees 9. have few cattle and pasture land 10. live under trees 11. at peace with their neighbors 12. considered a sacred people 13. didn't bare weapons 14. judge the quarrels of their neighbors. 15. trade with the Scythians in seven languages. 16. live beside lofty mountains 17. neighbors of the Issedones.
From the scant geographical descriptions, some have placed them at the western base of the Altai Mts. Tadeusz Sulimirski identified them as the possesors of the Bolsherechemskaya Culture which came from the Karasuk Culture.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 5, 2006 0:36:38 GMT 3
Thank you very much, dear Master Sharrukin Do we have any records of such a people in the Chinese sources? Maybe they were related with the Wusun people?
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Post by sharrukin on Dec 6, 2006 6:41:51 GMT 3
Sulimirski postulates a Karasuk origin of the culture of the Argippaei. The origins of the Karasuk Culture itself, is not agreed upon, only that it appears to have been one of the earliest possessors of the "animal-style art" so prevelant in the belt of cultures encompassing the Scythians, Saka, and Siberian tribes. Some see enough of an identification of the Karasuk Culture with the "animal-style art" that they postulate that it may have been the origin of that art-form. These scholars trace the origin of the Karasuk Culture to "Ordos desert cattlebreeders". This of itself does not answer the question, given that we don't know who inhabited the Ordos region about 1500 BC. The possibility could be from Altaics to Tocharians, and even to Yeniseians, since the region of Karasuk possession bear place-names of Yeniseian linguistic origin.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 6, 2006 20:11:39 GMT 3
Hmm interesting information... This of itself does not answer the question, given that we don't know who inhabited the Ordos region about 1500 BC. Wasn't the region inhabited by the ancestors of the Xiongnu (Hsiung-nu), named Hongyu (Hung-yü), Xianyun (Hsien-yün) and Xunyu (Hsün-yü)?
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Post by sharrukin on Dec 7, 2006 9:02:14 GMT 3
In the period in question, c. 1500 BC, the only people documented to have inhabited the region were known as the Gui. The Xianyun were only documented in the region in the time of the Zhou Dynasty.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 7, 2006 11:42:14 GMT 3
Hmm my memory falsified me, thanks
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Post by harryzhe on May 7, 2008 1:05:31 GMT 3
What does the name Argippae mean? From which language is it? I'm taking a stab in the dark here, but I would guess by its greek sound that Argippae is either a term given to these people by greeks to distinguish them from other Saka, or, what the Greeks thought their native name sounded like - A Hellenisation. For example A fairly basic response but I thought I'd take a shot at addressing it seeing as nobody else seems ot have yet.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 7, 2008 21:08:05 GMT 3
Thank you for the ideas
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