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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 23, 2005 13:36:28 GMT 3
I find it intresting to talk about the religion in the stepps. I think here we should forget some of the doctrines and open our minds! 
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 23, 2005 13:43:43 GMT 3
Kypchaks adopted musim religion at the beging of the 14 century and only because the Khan of the Golden Hord were fanatical muslim and forced all others to worship what they worshiped. But we integraded our religion in to the muslim and found it very practical. At least we know who to pray for to cover the sins. Nothing personal. but we kept our religion and our belives deep in our traditions. Please tell me about what you know about this!!!
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Post by Bor Chono on Nov 24, 2005 11:24:41 GMT 3
I think Nomads are very religious people. 1. Before Budda...Cristianity...Islam....-there was fire. Mongols still worship to sacred eternal Fire. Without fire the is no human(=Hun ;D) history. 2. Ancient Gods : We Mongols worshiped to 99 Tengri(Mongolian supreme gods) -why supreme? because these Tengries give super powers to a shaman people (healing, see what no one can see, controlling weather, flying...etc) Even an ordinary person can have super power. However tengri will ask something to pay for it.  3.Spirits...Ongons : Example One noble warrior had an injury during war. And he is dying. If his chest mirror is can`t hold his live for long. Shamans call spirits...maybe he can call ancestors  but ancestor spirits will just take his life . So shaman call a animal spirit(have great healing powers). Maybe a wolf spirit. And now he is OK but  something disturbing happening -he became wild, he hungers for blood. He is cursed for rest of his life. He is warewolf. But it is OK ;D the shaman can heal him -make him a human again. ofcourse there are many friendly spirits |
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 26, 2005 10:50:27 GMT 3
1) Worshiping to the fire still exist! My friend studies in Afganistan and he said their are a tribe which is outlaw and they worship fire. They used to live in Iran but run away from them and settled in Pakistan and Afganistan. In Siberiya you can find some villages deep in the woods and away from the civilazation. They kept the old religion and the main is fire.
2) In Kazakhstan close to Kapchigai up the river Ili we have a place called Tamgaly. Its belived when Chingis Khan was invading Stepps we first crossed that place. There we have a Big stones and rocks which makes one picture. On them Great Khan draw a pictures of Budda and many other godds including the great god Tengri. It is thought he worshiped them to all before crossing the land to avoid the wrath of the gods. If I will have a chance to picture them I will post them here.
3) In Kazakh tradition and religion the spirit of the ancestors protects the family and the heretage. Therefore we pray to them very often for presperity and guardiance. We have a lots of story when spirits made a miracle and saved the clan from extinction during the 1937.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 26, 2005 11:00:50 GMT 3
Now in kazakhstan everywhere you can buy a picture of tengri and wear it on. No one will say anything because its your right. In villages some times during the famine and bad times the elders gather together and start the shamanism asking spirits for help. (Like rain, good corps) It helps as. Especialy with the rain looks amazing. Amarican Indians also prepare some shamanism to call for rain. Elders never ask for more as it could anger the Tengri and the spirits!!!
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Post by Bor Chono on Nov 26, 2005 13:27:12 GMT 3
In ancient time we had no graveyards. We don't visit places were dead people were left. It is forbidden to cry when some one is gone and call the name.
About ancestor spirits : -In Mongolia ordinary people (=peasants) don`t ask for help, -only noble people can. We did not have any prey words(-now we have Buddist prayers). Only shamans know words, names of spirits. Human soul makes land dirty-I mean makes land bad to live.
-Images of Tengri? Hmm...we don't know any Tengri image(=maybe I don`t know...I will ask someone else.)
I know The Death Lord=Erlig Nomun khaan : -Has Bull head, he holds Fire spear(W-shape) and snake.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 28, 2005 22:27:47 GMT 3
Yeap you are right about the graves! In old times we didn't had graves, we burnd the corp but something changed suddenly and nomads started to bury the corps and remember where they given to earth. We don't cry over the gone ones it is also forbiden for us but we make a pray and mention the names of the ancestors. We Karakypchaks when used to go into combat we cried the name of our grand ancestor to give us strenth to die in honor! It was "Oibas". I once asked my grandgrandmom when she was alive do we belive in hell and heaven and she laughed and said if our ancestors raid other nations, raped the women, killed someones husband and sons could they have belived in heaven or hell? NO! She said that the world is twisted and there is no good or bad. As long as you achive ur goal you will be always right!
We found picture of Tengri in large numbers as a cave pictures and in Tamgaly! he has the head of the sun and the body of very tall man with tail. Thats how I remember Tengri.
I vizited Lahasa last year(capital of tibet) and saw a lots of pictures of buddist god including the keeper of the hell gates. He matches the discription you just given me. (Budidsm also twisted).
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Post by Bor Chono on Nov 30, 2005 14:08:02 GMT 3
Ancient mongols too, did not belived in Hell or Heavan. Before battle mongols sang a song -Songs have power to call spirits(especialy mongolian Huumi and songs of Urta=long). During battle, Big drums are used to call spirits -to give power.(shamans also use little drums). Even before battle we burn something(forgot the name) -to call powerful evil spirit called (Ad) Tiren=has black human like body and smoke tail. When mongols strick say : Hurai=foward and Alaad=Kill. If it is big, planned battle Shamans dance on top of surrounding mountains to give power to soldiers. Black Tugh does the job -by making enemy soldiers weak. After battle enemy heads are placed on sticks -no nomad will touch it. Enemy symbols are destroyed (-forbidden to burn  ). Swords,armors, iron...etc collected and carried. Body of own deads are carried back home to sacret places for dead. If too many dead, -stay where they are. |
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 30, 2005 18:23:09 GMT 3
I heard interesting thing from my Kirghiz friend ;D Have you heard about Manas. He was some kinda magnificent hero. He became the legend at the age of 14 and murdered at the age of 18. But before he was murdered by Chinese spy he crushed everyone he could find. Especially Chinese and Kazakhs. OK the story is 1000 years old. No evidence known to me of his existence I couldn't find but the story lives and it is not passed by books or Stella! Its passed by holy spirit! The spirit enters someones Kirghiz body and speaks from within. And its not a single people. Its approximately 40 people different age and occupation start speaking old Kirghiz language and tell the same epic story about Manas Never the less it was like that for 1000 years. |
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Post by Bor Chono on Dec 1, 2005 9:08:45 GMT 3
Interesting.But didn`t heard such story. Wondering soul of dead called -Bug(=demon). If soulless body of dead is wondering around it called -Sug(=Zombie). If Bug enters someones body person becomes crazy -he becomes Albin(=goblin). Skin becomes dark, eyes become red, hair, teeth, nails grow. (In Mongolian) ;DManas=headache=dizzy=/you are hit on head and everything become white/ ;D Manaa=Watch post Manaas=thing that you are looking after. Mana=one of kind precious stone. ;DMangas=monster ;D Mongolian fairy tale monsters often have many heads. |
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Post by Kolaksay on Dec 1, 2005 9:58:34 GMT 3
I have never heard of the spiritual aspect of Manas that Nomad mentions, that is fascinating! The Kirghiz epic poem Manas is famous among American scholars as the earliest Steppe literature extant. The great Kazakh scholar Chokan Valikhanov (or Shoqan Valiqan-uli, late 19th/early 20th c) called it "the Iliad of the Steppe peoples."
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Dec 8, 2005 22:25:06 GMT 3
Thats what I heard about Manas! Could you give us more information about him?
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Post by Kolaksay on Dec 9, 2005 3:29:48 GMT 3
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Post by tangriberdi on Sept 16, 2006 17:40:48 GMT 3
That is wonderful, Is there any written text of it?
I would like to read it all much.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Nov 28, 2006 11:10:53 GMT 3
Lets talk about FEMALE GODS. Recently many top religions have been punched in the kidney by the rise of female worshiping.
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but ancestor spirits will just take his life 
something disturbing happening -he became wild, he hungers for blood. He is cursed for rest of his life. He is warewolf. But it is OK ;D the shaman can heal him -make him a human again.
). Swords,armors, iron...etc collected and carried. Body of own deads are carried back home to sacret places for dead. If too many dead, -stay where they are.