pantigin
Tudun
Without Uighurs, there was no Mahmud and without him, there is no complete stories of Turks !
Posts: 164
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Post by pantigin on Feb 24, 2008 17:28:31 GMT 3
Can any friend here give some information on the Alevi Turks of Turkey? Thanx !
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 24, 2008 23:41:38 GMT 3
The name "Alevî" ( Arabic 'Alawiyyûn علاهيون ) means "Follower of 'Alî". Before the 16th century, it was used in the Islamic world for the rulers and people who rebelled for the cause of 'Alî's caliphal rights, but it was purely a political movement, without any religious background. It was during the 16th century and after when the name Alevî acquired a religious meaning.
When the Oghuz Turks were converting to Islam, the common tribesmen continued to keep their pre-Islamic beliefs and traditions, and it was the mobile dirvishes who propaganded Islam to these common tribesmen according to their own beliefs. Thus, they were not aware of most of the Islamic regulations. This is called Hetherodoxy, the opposite of Orthodoxy (strictly believing and following the settled and established rules of the religion). Even the early Ottoman rulers like Osman Begh and Orkhan Begh were members of hetherodox Turks. The Hetherodox were Muslims only in the name, but they followed and practiced most of their ancient beliefs, such as the continuation of the Ancestors Cult (the Turks pay great respect to the dead and build magnificant tombs, contrary to the Arabs).
During the beginning of the 16th century, an originially Sunnî Azeri sect converted to Jâfarid Shi'â and started the gradual Shiisizing of the lands they conquered in Iran. These were the famous Safavids. While they became the sole rulers of Iran, the Ottoman Empire was also expanding eastwards; note that the Ottoman dynasty also became strict Sunnîs during the 15th century, especially during the reign of Sultan Bâyezîd II. Eventually, the two great powers engaged in war, naturally. Shah Ismâ'îl (Ismail) of the Safavids sent his spies to the hetherodox Turkmen nomads living under Ottoman rule and provoked them to rebel against the Ottoman dynasty, which was already disliked by the majority of the Turkmens due to several reasons (taxation, forced migrations, etc). During this process, these hetherodox Turkmens adopted the cult of Ali as imposed on them by Shah Ismail's spies, and became called as "Ḳïzïlbaš" (Qyzylbash, Kızılbaş, "Red Heads") and eventually as "Alevî". However, these Alevi Turks retained most of their old beliefs and cults, along with the Sunni Turks living in the countryside. Even today, the Alevis are not strictly Muslims and they are very different from orthodox Jâfarid Shiites.
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pantigin
Tudun
Without Uighurs, there was no Mahmud and without him, there is no complete stories of Turks !
Posts: 164
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Post by pantigin on Feb 25, 2008 15:37:25 GMT 3
Thank you indeed !
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 26, 2008 21:57:35 GMT 3
You are welcome The best expert on this subject is Prof. Dr. Ahmet Yaşar Ocak; you can read his books if you would like to get detailed information
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Post by laudatortemporisac on Jan 26, 2009 4:02:03 GMT 3
Do You know any remnant scripts from Gül Baba, the medieval saint of Buda(Budin)? The best would be on the internet, translated in English(or Hungarian .
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 27, 2009 3:12:01 GMT 3
I don't know any, sorry
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Post by laudatortemporisac on Feb 2, 2009 14:36:18 GMT 3
Is this song an 'arabesque'? Or arabesque is something else? This songs are religious-spiritualist songs, isn't it?
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Post by ALTAR on Feb 2, 2009 15:57:43 GMT 3
Is this song an 'arabesque'? Or arabesque is something else? This songs are religious-spiritualist songs, isn't it? This song has no a relation with arabesque music. It was a poem of Pir Sultan Abdal who was a Anatolian Qızılbash(Alavi) Turcoman minstrel and rebellion leader.
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Post by laudatortemporisac on Feb 3, 2009 15:37:07 GMT 3
This song has no a relation with arabesque music. It was a poem of Pir Sultan Abdal who was a Anatolian Qızılbash(Alavi) Turcoman minstrel and rebellion leader. Oh, yes I confused. Finaly I found on Wikipwedia: hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Török_zeneI'm to check all the performers mentioned on the page. That song is closer to Türkü. Arabesk closer to Pop with Arabic elements. But all are very nice
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Post by ALTAR on Feb 3, 2009 18:28:58 GMT 3
You are absolutely right buddy. Its a part of our folk music in Turkey.
Nice too see anyone from foreign country who likes Turkish Folk Music.
Regards
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Post by arnewise12 on Feb 19, 2009 2:38:41 GMT 3
Why are the alevis so negative view about sunnimuslims in turkey, in a documentary I saw there was a alevi who said that the sunnimuslims are this and that,
Do they hate Islam?
And another question, do they considerd themselfs as turks, I mean are they so fanatic that religion comes before ethnicity,
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 19, 2009 14:22:48 GMT 3
What type of questions are these, that end with commas instead of question marks? How many times do I have to tell you to write English properly? Do you do this on purpose? Or do you have problems with understanding what I say?
Anyway...
Because they had been persecuted by the Sunnis for centuries.
Some do, some don't, it's hard to generalise.
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Post by ALTAR on Feb 19, 2009 15:56:12 GMT 3
Why are the alevis so negative view about sunnimuslims in turkey, in a documentary I saw there was a alevi who said that the sunnimuslims are this and that, Do they hate Islam? And another question, do they considerd themselfs as turks, I mean are they so fanatic that religion comes before ethnicity, Its related with both sides fanatics, fundementalists. I can say that Sunni Fanatism marginalizes Alevi people. However, there are also some Alevi Fanatics and Hardline Leftist-Communist Terror Organizations who make negative propagandas about the general of Sunni people and the State. As a result, some people have influenced by these lies but they cannot represent the general view of Alevi people like the general of Sunni Community. In Turkey, there are nearly 20 million Alevi people. Approximately %80 of Alevi population is Turk. The others remains are Zaza, Kurd and Nusayri(Arab Alavites, they had so different rituals from Turkish Alevites)
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Post by arnewise12 on Feb 19, 2009 23:30:05 GMT 3
Thats to bad, I dont like those homo commies heheh ;D ,
why did they turn from Islam into heretic religion according to muslims , was it becasue of the mongol invasion. I mean I read somewere that the only reason shiism got a foot hold in iran after the ilkhanids were due to the mongol invasion, people were tired of the "same old none sense from former religious authorities" and wanted a change.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 20, 2009 15:08:47 GMT 3
The spread of Shi'a in Iran was in the late 15th-early 16th centuries after the establishment of the Safavid State, several centuries after the Mongol conquests.
Btw, have you ever seen a sign like this before: ?
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