Armies of the Tujue

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by me at September 26, 2004)
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Organisation:

The Tujue (Türük / Gök Türk) armies were organised in the Decimal System (based on the number ten and it's multiples). Units were made up of ten, hundred, thousand and ten thousand men; unit names were Onluq (10 men), Yüzlük (100 men), Biñlik (1000 men) and Tümen (10000 men) and ranks of officers commanding them followed as On Bashï, Yüz Bashï, Biñ Bashï and Tümen Bashï (Bash means "Head" and -bashï means "Head of-").


Units:

Most of the units were made up cavalry, some armored, some not; while there were also small numbers of infantry. Units were as following:

- Atlïgh: "Rider", "Horseman"; these were the light cavalries, forming the majority of most of the armies. They were typical steppe riders.

- Yarïqlïgh Atlïgh: "Armored Horseman"; even though no such names are recorded, I've created this to use for the heavy cavalry units that were good at both ranged and melee action. In some battles like Herat and Mingsha Shan, the great majority of Tujue forces were made up of these (though in Herat, there were also elephants and a few light riders).

- Böri: "Wolves", these were the Guards of the Qaghans (rulers), they were the best soldiers of the army, they were armored from head to toe, many foreign records (like those of Xuan Zang) describe them in detail. I read they wore single-type uniforms of red or green silk, but I'm not very sure on that.

- Yadagh: "Foot Soldier", infantry, these were largely made up of infantry archers or auxiliaries. They rode Bactrian camels but fought dismounted in battles. In battles, they served as a defensive line, though they were also used in background service such as carrying equipment. Mercenary infantries from the city-states of the Tarim Basin were also recruited if necessary.


Equipment:

- Chinese sources listed Tujue equipment as Zhao (Bow made from Horns), Di (Whistling Arrow), Jian (Two-Faced Sword), Dao (Single-Edged Sword), Yan (a special Turko-Chinese weapon, similar to halberd with a very massive and long blade, excellent in cavalry warfare), Mao (Spear), Jia (Armor) and others which I currently don't know.

- Chinese say that "Armor was like the ordinary dress of Tujue men" and they listed many types of Yarïq (Armor), including those made from iron, bronze, gold (for display, not for warfare) and even wood. According to archeological findings, there were still many types of Tujue armor, including chain mail, leather lamellar armor, lamellae hauberks with chain coifs (neck protector), wooden-iron-leather, etc... Even some of the horses were armored too. Many warriors wore an aditional iron lamellar cuirass on leather armor.

- Helmets were called Tolga (or Tulga), they were nice-looking, if you could shoot towards both front and back on horseback, you were allowed to put two feathers to the sides of your helmet. Some helmets seem to have nose protectors while the best warriors and heroes added mail parts that covered the entire face.

- Qïlïchs (Swords) were usually long (suited for use on horseback), with some varieties like Single-Edged Straight, Single-Edged Slightly-Curved and Two-Faced Straight. Daggers were common too.

- Qarghï (Lances) were also a favorite weapon, Spears were called Süñgü and Short Spears were named Qachut. The Tujue loved putting small bells on the head of their lances.

- Shields or Qalqans were very common, they were usually round, made from iron, bronze or wood.

- The most important weapons of the Tujue were the Yay (Bow) and Oq (Arrow, also meaning "Tribe"). Turkic bows were of reflex-composite type, they were very flexible and very powerful (the best composite bow type in history is said to be the 16th-century Ottoman bow which was an improved version of the Classical Turkish bows). Even if single-piece short bows were used, they must have been small in number, and reserved for some infantry (though I don't think they were used). Arrows had many types, like those special to kill horses, make noises, thrust through armor and wound soldiers. Javelins don't seem to have been used much (it was one of the main weapons of European Huns, but not that of Tujue).

- Ordinary soldiers wore normal nomad clothes and sometimes helmets & leather armor. The weaponry of most of the riders, be it Atlïgh, Yarïqlïgh Atlïgh or Böri, were almost the same. Riders outside the Atlïgh wore armor that covered their chest, back, neck, legs and sometimes arms, only the best covered their faces.

- Standards were also important, they were called Tugh which are recorded to have had small golden models of wolf heads on their top.


Officers:

- I've listed the commanders of units above, I'll just add the Tarqans and Baghaturs. Baghaturs were Heroes as well as Tarqans, but the tarqans might have been closer nobles. However, the difference between the two are still vague.

- Army commanders were called Sü Bashï ("Head of Army" or "Head of Soldiers"), ordinary warriors were called Er, brave warriors were called Alp. In major battles, the qaghans commanded the center part (Böri Guards) while a Yabghu and a Shad were appointed to the wings (one commanded one wing, the other one the other wing).


Tactics:

- The army had three major parts: a center and two wings. Infantry were deployed on the back, guards were on the center, the other cavalries made up most of the army. If the riders had to make a melee charge, they would form into the Lance / Triangle Formations.

- If the main army broke, infantries would make a last stand and fire their arrows until the enemy got too close. Then they would draw their melee weapons (swords, daggers and spears) and make a final counter-charge.

- The classical tactics were the hit-and-run of steppe riders. The Tujue tried to keep the actual fighting short and gave more importance to weakening the enemy forces by cutting off supplies, making raids and ambushing. Weathers, seasons and even the position of the moon had effects on the fighting time and spirit of the Tujue warriors. Campaigns were made usually during the winter, when the horses were strong after being fed in spring and summer.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by BK at September 28, 2004)
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Ihsan wrote:

Chinese sources listed Tujue equipment as Zhao (Bow made from Horns), Di (Whistling Arrow

I read that the ottomans had a bow made of Horn, the europeans were afried of the horn bow. Before using it you had to warm it in a fire, is that true, Was it use often, frequently, I mean , was it a basic bow used in the Tujue armies and the ottomans, If so please tell me its function,

Woludn'tthe bow horn be the best bow, I know hardly anything about it,

But did it had better power and rate then other bows, for example the composite bow adn longbow,


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(Originially posted by me at September 28, 2004)
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I read that the ottomans had a bow made of Horn, the europeans were afried of the horn bow. Before using it you had to warm it in a fire, is that true, Was it use often, frequently, I mean , was it a basic bow used in the Tujue armies and the ottomans, If so please tell me its function,

Woludn'tthe bow horn be the best bow, I know hardly anything about it,

But did it had better power and rate then other bows, for example the composite bow adn longbow,

Well, every book I have says that the Tujue and Ottomans had composite bows, this Horn Bow is something I read only in the Chinese sources and I really wonder what it is


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(Originially posted by Chono at October 2, 2004)
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Aren't composite bows made of horns? Mongolian bows are made of horns, people call them "glued horn bow".


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(Originially posted by a Guest at October 10, 2004)
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Did the foot soldiers of the Tujue army include regular Tujue soldiers or were they just auxiliaries, mercenaries, and non-Tujue recruits from conquered areas? Because it would seem awkward for a steppe army like the Tujue to employ regular infantries in their armies since most steppe armies were usually made up of cavalry. The Mongols, Jurchens, and Khitans used infantry, but I don't think they had regular infantries in their armies; the infantries they employed were Chinese Song infantries and militia-peasants and were used as human shields when besieging cities rather than as last stand counterattack forces. I am not too knowledge on all steppe armies but I think infantry were of little use to steppe armies because traditional steppe armies rely on the power and speed of their cavalry, and infantry would slow their forces down. It seem weird the Tujue would deploy thier infantries last in battle.

BTW, ihsan, do you have any pictures or images (like those colour plates from Osprey) of the Tujue armies, like their light and heavy cavalry, infantries, etc. or other Turkic peoples that closely resemble the Tujue culturally and militarily? I'm not talking about those inscriptions and images from the Orkhon Monuments (I can barely make out an image of what those Tujue inscribed, let alone making out their military units).


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(Originially posted by a Guest at October 10, 2004)
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Can you expand more on the war elephants at Herat? Were they war elephants the Tujue received from the Persians or Indians either through war or diplomacy, or were they regular units in the Tujue army (which I highly doubt)?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by me at October 10, 2004)
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Hi Guest, welcome, perhaps you should better register and become a member

Did the foot soldiers of the Tujue army include regular Tujue soldiers or were they just auxiliaries, mercenaries, and non-Tujue recruits from conquered areas?

The Tujue infantry included Tujue tribesmen as written in the inscriptions. Tonyuquq tells us that when the rebellion of Qutlugh started, the rebellious Tujue army was composed of 2/3 Atlïgh and 1/3 Yadagh. This was at a time when the Tujue didn't have any vassals yet.

However, the Western Tujue must have used Soghdian and Tocharian infantry but I'm not very knowledged on them

Because it would seem awkward for a steppe army like the Tujue to employ regular infantries in their armies since most steppe armies were usually made up of cavalry. The Mongols, Jurchens, and Khitans used infantry, but I don't think they had regular infantries in their armies; the infantries they employed were Chinese Song infantries and militia-peasants and were used as human shields when besieging cities rather than as last stand counterattack forces. I am not too knowledge on all steppe armies but I think infantry were of little use to steppe armies because traditional steppe armies rely on the power and speed of their cavalry, and infantry would slow their forces down. It seem weird the Tujue would deploy thier infantries last in battle.

Keep in mind that they rode Bactrian camels on the move, they fought dismounted only at the battles.

I have to go now, will reply more later.


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(Originially posted by me at October 10, 2004)
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BTW, ihsan, do you have any pictures or images (like those colour plates from Osprey) of the Tujue armies, like their light and heavy cavalry, infantries, etc. or other Turkic peoples that closely resemble the Tujue culturally and militarily? I'm not talking about those inscriptions and images from the Orkhon Monuments (I can barely make out an image of what those Tujue inscribed, let alone making out their military units).

Ah, there used to be some very nice online pictures showing Tujue heavy cavalry but only one of them are avaible now, the rest don't seem to be hosted anymore. Here it is:



This is a petroglyph from the Southern Altais showing heavy cavalry. Experts debate on whether these were Ruanruan or Tujue but I don't think it's that important, the heavy cavalry of the Ruanruan, Tujue (Eastern & Western), Uyghurs and other 6th-9th century eastern nomads must have looked very similar to each other.

Can you expand more on the war elephants at Herat? Were they war elephants the Tujue received from the Persians or Indians either through war or diplomacy, or were they regular units in the Tujue army (which I highly doubt)?

I don't think they were regular units, I haven't read anything like that, the elephants at Herat are the only example of elephant useage in Tujue history AFAIK. It was TJK from AE from whom I first read about the Tujue elephants at Herat (his main references were a Polish military historian's "Armies of Turkish Tribes" and Gumiliov's "Ancient Turks"), he used to have a nice thread about the battle at the old AE forum but those rednecks of proboards deleted the forum and I lost all the online info

I guess those elephants were from India.


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(Originially posted by UnregisteredUser at October 11, 2004)
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Ah, there used to be some very nice online pictures showing Tujue heavy cavalry but only one of them are avaible now, the rest don't seem to be hosted anymore. Here it is:



This is a petroglyph from the Southern Altais showing heavy cavalry. Experts debate on whether these were Ruanruan or Tujue but I don't think it's that important, the heavy cavalry of the Ruanruan, Tujue (Eastern & Western), Uyghurs and other 6th-9th century eastern nomads must have looked very similar to each other.

This is a problem because I can barely make out the details of the Tujue/Ruan-ruan heavy cavalryman in the petroglyph. I can't tell how the helmet looks like. Is that two horns on the helmet? How did the armour of the Tujue heavy cavalryman look like (a graphic reconstruction)? Sure, you can tell me its probably leather or iron lamelar armour, but that's too general to give a description of a Tujue heavy cavalryman; most East Asian armies and the bordering peoples like the Turkic and Tungus steppe nomads use largely lamellar armour and a lot of the civilizations have their own styles and types of lamelar armour. How did the Tujue styles specifically look like? I can kind of see the Turkic spear with the brass bells at the tip and all, as expected from general descriptions of Turkic warriors' spears, however I still do not have an image of a reconstruction of a Turkic spear; I cannot deduct from the picture. Also, did Tujue heavy cavalryman carry composite bows, axes, and sabers because all I see is the Turkic spear being carried by the heavy cavalryman in the petroglyph. I lack the sources and research to make out an image of a Tujue heavy cavalryman based on this petroglyph in my mind so if there is an Osprey color plate of both a Tujue steppe rider and a Tujue heavy cavalryman somewhere online then it would help.

I don't think they were regular units, I haven't read anything like that, the elephants at Herat are the only example of elephant useage in Tujue history AFAIK. It was TJK from AE from whom I first read about the Tujue elephants at Herat (his main references were a Polish military historian's "Armies of Turkish Tribes" and Gumiliov's "Ancient Turks"), he used to have a nice thread about the battle at the old AE forum but those rednecks of proboards deleted the forum and I lost all the online info

I guess those elephants were from India.

That sucks. I was just getting interested too since rarely do steppe nomads come across war elephants, let alone employing war elephants in their armies.


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(Originially posted by me at October 11, 2004)
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Is that two horns on the helmet?

No, probably two feathers, indicating that the riders could shoot both to the front and to the back while riding a horse.

How did the armour of the Tujue heavy cavalryman look like (a graphic reconstruction)? Sure, you can tell me its probably leather or iron lamelar armour, but that's too general to give a description of a Tujue heavy cavalryman; most East Asian armies and the bordering peoples like the Turkic and Tungus steppe nomads use largely lamellar armour and a lot of the civilizations have their own styles and types of lamelar armour. How did the Tujue styles specifically look like?

Chinese sources say that the Tujue used armors made from various materials, such as iron, bronze and even gold and wood :? The pictures and drawings I saw show Tujue armor as mostly lamellar with several versions, such as iron cuirasses, iron lamellar pieces, etc. So there wasn't one type of Tujue armor. However, one can say that some Tujue armors looked a bit similar to the armor Japanese Ashigara infantry (as I found out).

I can kind of see the Turkic spear with the brass bells at the tip and all, as expected from general descriptions of Turkic warriors' spears, however I still do not have an image of a reconstruction of a Turkic spear; I cannot deduct from the picture.

Osprey's plate of Tujue have a spear.

Also, did Tujue heavy cavalryman carry composite bows, axes, and sabers because all I see is the Turkic spear being carried by the heavy cavalryman in the petroglyph.

Highly probably yes, except the axe which wasn't a common weapon used by the Turkic peoples at that time.

As I could figure out from the Orkhon Inscriptions, Kül Tigin's equipment included heavy armor (probably iron lamellar), a helmet with visor, a lance (primary weapon), a saber (or a straight long sword, we don't know which one exactly), a lassoe, possibly a dagger and sometimes a bow and arrows (interesting, no shields!
). I think this is how most of Tujue nobles, heroes and heavy cavalry were armed.

I lack the sources and research to make out an image of a Tujue heavy cavalryman based on this petroglyph in my mind so if there is an Osprey color plate of both a Tujue steppe rider and a Tujue heavy cavalryman somewhere online then it would help.

There used to be in a site but not anymore

If someone can host it for me, I can send the pic (though it lacks the Türgish Tarqan).

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

(Originially posted by Temujin at October 11, 2004)
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go to www.imageshack.us, there you can upload pictures from your HD...



picture i found online from the Concord book Warlord Armies from their Fighting Men Series, probably Sogdian or early western Turk.



heavy Gök-Türk horseman from the Osprey Elite book Attila and the Nomad Hordes.


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(Originially posted by me at October 11, 2004)
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Hey Temu, thanks for posting them!

I was talking about the second pic, it was in a Korean site but it doesn't show the nice-looking Türgish tarqan


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(Originially posted by BK at October 18, 2004)
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what does shad mean, you are talking about tarqan Ihsan , is it tarqan or tarkhan, can you specife on whata tarqan is ??+

The Khazar Tarkhan were generals and ministiers to I think If I remember right


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(Originially posted by me at October 18, 2004)
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what does shad mean,

A Shad was one of the two rulers who ruled each half of the empires. There were usually two Shads: Tölis Shadï (Ruler of the East) and Tardush Shadï (Ruler of the West).

you are talking about tarqan Ihsan , is it tarqan or tarkhan, can you specife on whata tarqan is ??+

Tarqan was a noble-hero, it was an honorary title, usually elite and noble warriors received it.

In Old Turkic, it was Tarqan (with a hard K); in Middle Turkic and Mongolian, it became Tarkhan (with a throat H, as in Persian and Arabic).

The Khazar Tarkhan were generals and ministiers to I think If I remember right

Hmm, possible.


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(Originially posted by Liung-Fu at November 9, 2004)
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Did Tujue ever fought with the Arabs? I think Bilge Kaghan was planning an invasion of the Umayyad Caliphate, but did he launch the expedition? If so, please enlighten me.(thanks in advance)


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(Originially posted by me at November 9, 2004)
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Did Tujue ever fought with the Arabs? I think Bilge Kaghan was planning an invasion of the Umayyad Caliphate, but did he launch the expedition? If so, please enlighten me.(thanks in advance)

The Umawwid Arabs invaded Western Tujue city-states in Transoxiana and kept fighting with the On Oq (led by the Sulu Qaghan of Türgish).

The Eastern Tujue invaded Transoxiana twice: one in 701 (IIRC) and one in 711. At the first campaign, Soghdiana was at the control of Shage Qaghan of Türgish so the Tujue battled them. Just before the second campaign, the Umawwid governor Qutaiba bin Muslim invaded Soghdiana so the rulers of the Turkic city-states and Soghdians asked the Tujue for help. The Tujue was already campaigning against the On Oq in Jungaria-Semirechie so they decided to enter Soghdiana. It's been recorded in the Orkhon Inscriptions that the army "re-ordered Soghdaq, Tezik and Toqar" and gained acquired many loots, so they must have been victorious. They returned back to Mongolia the next year but soon the Umawwids invaded again, the Tujue could never launch a campaign into Soghdiana again because they now faced internal revolts.

Soghdiana was lost to the Umawwids but they couldn't conquer Semirechie because Sulu Qaghan of Türgish stopped them.

[UnregisteredUser]

Hi guys, I am the same Guest/UnregisteredUser from the old steppe forum. Thanks for the pics; they are awesome. The reason I asked was because I might make a mod of the Tujue/Kök Turuks for Rise of Nations though I am still having trouble making good skins. I finally got the Osprey book Attila and the Nomad Hordes and the recently released Mounted Archers of the Steppe a while ago and they have excellent plates.

Though I was a bit perplexed at some pictures, like how they drew the Avar nobleman with many Caucasoid features when the text describes them as predominantly Mongoloid peoples. Nicolle says the Hepthalites were probably Mongol peoples but with "fair features" which I find weird since the plates depicted the nobleman like a European. Then when the text says the Turgish kept a Turkic military elite while the rest were assimilated in the larger Indo-Iranian population, the plate depicted the Turgish tarqan like a Middle Easterner. But I guess these are just small details which I could probably ignore since you won't even be able to see the face of most units in RON anyways but is just a bit weird historically.

But do you guys have a picture of a typical Tujue steppe rider/light cavalry/mounted archer? The plates for the Attila book mostly depict the armoured cavalrymen/heavy cavalry of the various Turkic steppe peoples, which is good since there aren't many books I've seen that deal with steppe heavy cavalry in the first place since the mounted archer/light cavalry comes to mind when talking about steppe peoples. But then I am clueless as to how their light cavalries/mounted archers would look like. The headgear for the Eastern Tujue tribesman in the Osprey book Attila..... is missing. In the Mounted Archers Osprey book, there is a plate containing 2 Turkic mounted archers but I am not sure if they are Tujue, Uygur, Turgish, etc. Their headgear lacks the two feathers, so they are probably not Tujue. But should model the Tujue steppe rider using the headgear for the Turkic light cavalry depicted in the Mounted Archers plate or should I just add in the two feathers?

Furthermore, I don't have any clue as to how the Böri Guards would historically look like. Would it be best to use the Turgish tarqan in the Osprey plate as a guide?

BTW, ihsan, I noticed you haven't copied most of the 2nd page of the Tujue armies thread from the old forum to this thread. And if you want people to post here from now on and not the old forum I think you should talk to the moderators at AE to change the link to the Steppes History Forum since it still links people to the old forum.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Hi guys, I am the same Guest/UnregisteredUser from the old steppe forum.

Hi, welcome

But do you guys have a picture of a typical Tujue steppe rider/light cavalry/mounted archer?

No, I don't

But then I am clueless as to how their light cavalries/mounted archers would look like. The headgear for the Eastern Tujue tribesman in the Osprey book Attila..... is missing. In the Mounted Archers Osprey book, there is a plate containing 2 Turkic mounted archers but I am not sure if they are Tujue, Uygur, Turgish, etc. Their headgear lacks the two feathers, so they are probably not Tujue. But should model the Tujue steppe rider using the headgear for the Turkic light cavalry depicted in the Mounted Archers plate or should I just add in the two feathers?

The Tujue light cavalry was the typical steppe rider, with no armor and with fur hats.

Only warriors who could shoot arrows to both the front and the rear were allowed to have two feathers, someone not having feathers does not mean that he wasn't a Tujue.

I don't have that Mounted Archers book so I can't say much

Furthermore, I don't have any clue as to how the Böri Guards would historically look like.

None of us know how exactly they looked like. Probably heavily armored cavalry with single uniforms.

BTW, ihsan, I noticed you haven't copied most of the 2nd page of the Tujue armies thread from the old forum to this thread.

I didn't need to.

And if you want people to post here from now on and not the old forum I think you should talk to the moderators at AE to change the link to the Steppes History Forum since it still links people to the old forum.

I PMed II to change the url, I also posted the new adress in the parnres board but no one seems to care there

[Lannes]

How large was a typical Tujue army?

[Kolaksay]

"Yan (a special Turko-Chinese weapon, similar to halberd with a very massive and long blade, excellent in cavalry warfare)"

Can anyone provide me with more info, specifications, pictures, etc? I am researching the hybrid weapon of sword-halberds and this is the first time I've heard of the Yan.
Thanks!

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

How large was a typical Tujue army?

I don't have specific numbers, but a typical Tujue army must have been at least 70-100,000 men strong.

Can anyone provide me with more info, specifications, pictures, etc? I am researching the hybrid weapon of sword-halberds and this is the first time I've heard of the Yan.
Thanks!

I found this picture in Osprey's The Age of Tamerlane:



It's caption says: "Almost identical to Chinese cavalry are these two horsemen in the Fatih Album. Only a Persian inscription and minor details of drawing place the picture in an Islamic context. There is, however, little reason to doubt that Timur's army and those of his eastern foes included such horsemen. Some may even have used these Chinese-style massive double-handed staff-weapons. (Fatih Album, Topkapi Lib., Ms. Haz. 2153, f.87r, Istanbul)"

Yan is the weapon you see in the miniature

[tadamson]

Unfortunately it's a mistake in the Osprey, the picture is a Ming dynasty sketch of deamons fighting...

rgds.

Tom..

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

What about the Persian inscription?

[tadamson]

It appears to have been added later, possibly by whoever imported it to Persia (whare it was found).

rgds.
Tom..

that said this is from one of the best Osprey's.

[Atabeg]

in the original post tigin wrote only the best coverd there faces byt why if they are so good they want to feel more free and not cover there face?

[Bor Chono]

Horns are symbol of "Power" for Mongols, but not 3 river Mongols(=tribes called "Mongol") but Jungars/Oirads & Tatars used it on their helmets. Also Mongols don`t use bird(=eagle?) feathers. Mongolian Kazak historians claim that they wore helmets with feathers, -ofcouse!.

Mongols don`t use "Yan"! -maybe I don`t know. Even today, no one know it & no craftsmen will make one. Many think it is not Mongol weapon -I mean this weapon is for chinese only.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

ahiskali said:

in the original post tigin wrote only the best coverd there faces byt why if they are so good they want to feel more free and not cover there face?

It's actually only my guess. I guessed the members of royalty covered their faces after I read a battle description in Köl Tigin's monument. There it says, when Köl Tigin charged against the Chinese, the Chinese shot him with many arrows. After the battle, they took out more than a hundred arrows from his armor, but his face wasn't hit with a single arrow and he wasn't hurt at all.

But I need archeological evidences to support my theory. Because I haven't seen any direct references to visors in the monuments.