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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Jun 7, 2006 23:09:41 GMT 3
I think its 2 one. Have some reasons to point in that direction. Thats a simbol of men!
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Post by tengrikut on Jun 7, 2006 23:48:01 GMT 3
"Allah" is an arabic word for Tengri. I always been interested why Allah is called Tenger. In Mongolian lang "Allah Tenger" means "Islam" -Buddism & Cristianity had no names with Tenger. I think, now I got it. hey Bor chono, do muslim mongolians use "allah tengri"? I don`t know if there are Muslim mongols. Surely Mongolian kazak ppl are Muslims. Just ask any Mongol "-Do U call Allah as Tenger? like -Allah Tenger" they will answer YES. If not, he is Jesus beliver, or he is something rare.  and that's very interesting. may be bec of living with muslim kazakhs... |
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Post by tengrikut on Jun 7, 2006 23:54:29 GMT 3
Bor Chono, I'm sure than Tanri and Tengeri have the same meaning. Allah has a different meaning. Muslim Turks use Allah since they don't believe in Tanri anymore. I think there was BIG difference between sedentary Arab world(Ancient Persia) & Steppe world(Ancient Nomads). I would like to know more about differences between Allah & Tanri -maybe something has stayed!. How U ppl stoped to belive? How is it feel like? Meybe U still belive in Tanri/Tenger!? -Not a joke! A REAL QUESTION!(Maybe not clear question for U) i am Tengriist ;D turks of turkey are mostly muslim but they are not very joint with religion. just some weekly or monthly prays. and when you examine him or her, you will see that they are different then the other muslim people. they know this too. but there are a few people like arabic and iranic muslims. and we still keeping our tengriist customs. people believe in too many shamanistic things that not in islam even islam phrohibited. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2006 4:28:36 GMT 3
You're right, Turks in Turkey still follow many of our pre-Islamic culture but they don't even know it.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 8, 2006 12:17:52 GMT 3
I think its 2 one. Have some reasons to point in that direction. Thats a simbol of men! Now I can`t tell U which one is right! In west V stands for women, ^ stands for men. So why turkmens wear hats with V in front?  |
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Jun 8, 2006 23:00:30 GMT 3
There is only one creator for me, and it's the endless Tengri...
"Möngge Tengriyin Küçüdür."
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Jun 9, 2006 1:05:45 GMT 3
Before a long time ago people who lived on the green fields of Deshty-Kypchak where the worshipers of Snake. Snake or Dragon. Its nothing to do with Chinese. Snake is the god of magic. (We can find sign of snakes in anything thats related to magic. Medicine used to be added aslo as a magic thing.) It is also a symbol of Mother Earth. In many religions we see the snake close connected to women, we even have legens relating women to snake. (Even Bible) In old times people believed in "Mother Earth" and worshiped the snake as a form of goddest. She taught people about magic and how to live in peace in her world. I probably could think that during that times it was matriarch. Girls love to say that long time ago the world was ruled by women. (Mother of Alexander the Great was the priest of that religion. Snake worshipers. If the stories are true) But then a Tengri came. The all blue sky. He was alone from the sky. Like an invader from the different world. The one and only. He was the most powerfull of all the gods on the earth. He brought new order. He teach people skills and crafts. He told people how to make bricks out of mud and how to burn it to make it stronger building material. How to get iron which is stronger than bronze. Giving the nomads the strongest weapon that no one could stand against. How to ride a horse using the bar bit and reins which made nomads the best horse riders in the world. And how to farm using the sickle, mattock and ploughs. When Tengri came many gods went underworld. (Sakas I think were the Snake believers.) Tengri never wanted to force people in believing him. To those who believed in him he granted a victory in battles and good life.
Where did he lived?!
Sky is his home. I like to compare religions nad to me he looks like Uranus. Greek god Uranus was the god of Sky. He became the husband of the Mother Earth "Gayar".
To become a Tengri believer you first had to take a baptism. (Don't get confused baptism is from Tengrizm not from Christianity. Christians adopted it. Christians started baptism from the 3rd century) Real baptism like in Tengrizm we can find in Orthodox Church.
The sign of Tengrizm was equal cross. All sides are equal and it had a sun in a middle. The sign of Tengri was on banners, flags, clothe, house and even jewelery. Some times instead of sun could be moon and it changed the meaning of the sign.
Gods name could be only spoken by priest .
Usually when fighting and enemy ten grist would shout the name "Kudai". It is also spoken in conversations and when speaking to Tengri.
When tengrist pray to Tengri and ask for something, good health, victory, right choice and help he speaks of "Allah"
The teaching of Tengrizm is that everybody will face Tengri at the end and he will judge us by the way we lived our life not looking who is it a king or a poor farmer.
"You create your own hell and heaven on earth!"
"What ever you give you will receive it back twice as much!"
I have few questions left still.
1) When did Tengrizm appeared?
2) Are there snake worshipers now days?
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 9, 2006 10:02:45 GMT 3
In Mongolian lang : Earth or Land is called "GAZAR" Mother earth is called "BAIGAL EKH"or "BAYGAL EKH"(some say BAYKUL EKH). Ekh=mother BAIGAL=some say it means "BAINGiin GAL"="ETERNAL FIRE". by Mongolian tradition, cross is symbol of SOMETHING STRONG. for exmpl : strong friendship, strong rope...etc. The walls of Gers(=yurt) are made of many crosses. Even roof-ring are made of cross. -I think cross must be equal, if not it will lose it`s symbolism. However I don`t think cross alone can be sign of Tengrism. His sign must symbolize ETERNIY, POWER=FREEDOM, KNOWLEDGE. Sun, Moon, Stars seemed to last for eternity -maybe also water, earth & air, do not forget the FIRE. Swastika is called one of symbols of Tengri. In the middle it has cross, and it looks like it is moving cross.(things that not move is bad) Swastika symbolizes SUN, FRIENDSHIP & =ETERNITY. Mongols belief that Symbols of Eternity can protect U & give long, healthy life. /(Mongol) SUN is a goddess(=Female) -I guess Goddess of Fertility. Everything who has life follow her.However she has huge power of destruction. In fairy tales, she keeps a magical golden box. Ppl who open this box becomes ash(U can`t open it, if it is not for U) -this box keeps her energy, -very hot. Box often sent as present to evil kings./ Mongolian shamans wear snake coats. I think it is true that Snake is symbol of Magic.  -these ropes symbolize snake. Tengri doesn`t speak to everyone. Shamans are trained to speak with spirits=Gods. But even they can`t speak with Tengri -I don`t know maybe some may speak. But still, now in Mongolia there is no shaman who can cast a rain, when there is no cloud. Hurmasta Tengri. Mongols worship to Hurmasta(=?) Tengri. (I think it is Rain Tengri, word "Hur" means "Rain"). When Mongols attack they would shout "Hurai". When they celebrate something they shout "Hurai". |
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 10, 2006 9:27:03 GMT 3
To Nomad (because now he is in china)
Do U noticed something? Do Chinese walk different than U?. I mean did U noticed that U walked different than they walk!?.
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Jun 12, 2006 11:14:54 GMT 3
Yes. Kazakh walk differently. I can see my country mates from distance just by his behavior.
Chinese walk in groups. Usually a bit shy and slow. Always look on their pals and fellows if they do something. If they cross the road they just do it and will not give pass to car or any other transport. Very rude. When speaking they shout. Very aggressive and think only about own profit in money even if it damages the reputation and honor. They love to watch someone being in trouble, car accident and death. Nothing is taboo for them. Very greedy. Addicted to gamble, sex and food
I had a teacher and she said that she can identify chinese from asians only if he talk about food, games and sleep on lessons.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 13, 2006 10:56:53 GMT 3
Nomad! Maybe I asked U a strange question. But, walking on earth as Hun(=Human) is part of Tengrizm. White man thinks that human is descendant of an ape -Maybe. But Mongols think that Tengri is the one & only father ancestor. About WALKING On EARTH As HUN. Mongols say "Buh yum uchirtai"="Everything has reasons" means "There is nothing that U can`t explain. =Every why? has answer. ". For exmpl : Woman has cold-er buttocks than men -Why?.(Mongol story) Because! -Once upon time firts two humans, men & women, came to middle earth from sky. They did not know that in middle earth lived hairy Demons(=maybe animals). Demons started to chase them!(=hunt) Woman was weak, she couldn`t run fast, she even used to fall in mud, her buttocks were in cold water/snow, many times. Then Tengri gave them A HORSE, Men rode horse & started to chase Demons. Now human was real Hun. However since then women has cold butthocks. THE END. I think, Nomad! U did not noticed, how most chinese walk. They walk this way : They walk like Charley Chaplin.I mean they don`t put their feet straight when they walk. So there must be a reason for that. There is only one reason why they walk this way. Mongols think that humans(=not real HUNs!) that has no "Spiritual horse" walk this way. The Spiritual horse.(I think every descendant of a Nomad/Rider has it.) Every Mongol believe that it has a spirit called "Khii-Mori"="Invisible Horse" means "Spiritual horse". Also "Khii-Mori" is translated as "Good luck". This spiritual horse can become weak. Buddism has books to make it strong & every year give flags to put on Ovoo(=cairn, Kurgan?). In old times, Shamans helped or U needed to climb on top of your sacret mountain & put some stones on cairn.  1.When human stand on earth it puts it`s legs this way. 2.When human ride a horse it puts it`s legs this way. And when HUN walk or run it puts legs this way :  -Hun walk straight, it means he still not landed from his horse, still riding some invisible horse. Not straight walk :  There are few reasons why U walk not straight : 1. U are too old to ride a horse, U have lost your spiritual horse and became walker. U even use stick for 3rd leg.(Or U are too young to ride a horse) 2. U became too fat for your spiritual horse, can`t carry U.(your legs can`t carry U). 3. U are not descendant of Tengri. U are not horsemen, so don`t have spiritual horse. 4. U are a woman!. Woman can walk this way. Beacause woman is a Mother and she must be close to Mother Earth. I mean she must carry her baby and walk on earth, it is hard to carry your baby on horse back. Why all men must walk straight? Mongols say : "Er huni dotor Emeeltei hazaartai mori bagtddag." is translated as "Inside of a man there is a horse with saddle & bridle" actually it means "Man can do anything. or Man can go far". I think it is not just Mongol way of thinking. Every nation want that their army soldiers walked straight. Even Fashion models try to walk straight -humans think that it looks majectic. -So Mongols have answer to this WHY. Nomad I hope U walk straight because you are descendant of horseman. If don`t walk straight, that`s Ok. it is just Mongol way of thinking -However U can try to fix your movement. So do chinese walk straight or not straight? I think most of them walk not straight. Nomad! watch them stock them! because you are steppe wolf!(I`m joking  ) Copy? ;D BE THE RIDER! Not WALKER! BE Close To TENGRI(=Sky, steppe supremme god). |
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Post by tengrikut on Jun 15, 2006 0:15:05 GMT 3
heeey bor chono, there is a problem: i walk straight, but i don't ride horse.. what's the problem? am i a secret horse-rider? ;D
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 17, 2006 15:17:44 GMT 3
heeey bor chono, there is a problem: i walk straight, but i don't ride horse.. what's the problem? am i a secret horse-rider? ;D MAYBE!!! Dear Tengrikut! maybe U don`t understand it, the strange thinking way of Mongols. U walk straight... It means your ancestors were ppl who did not any hard job for generations, never lifted heavy things & walked a lot, ppl who rode a horse=noble race. Ate a lot of meat=has good bones...etc. Shortly : Mongols believe that they are followed by horse spirit. (I think horses that used in sacrifice to Tengri, are not for Tengri, they for those who will fall in battle, there are few animals that can leed U to heaven=Tengri, Horse spirit can take U there... besides Tengri is too powerful to ask for (something) some horse spirit! He don`t need it.) By the way, Tengrikut, what does your "Kut" mean? No messege from Nomad? |
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Post by tengrikut on Jun 17, 2006 15:59:50 GMT 3
ancient turks believed that, Tengri gives power to Khan to rule his country by his blood. And everyone in Khans family, has that thing in their blood. it is called "kut". by the way, kut means happiness too. there is a book called "kutadgu bilig". means "knowledge that gives happiness". it gives some clues to rulers to keep his country happiy and peaceful. by the way, my anchestors were millitary officers in turkey. just my father's genereation left army. but he is a war veteran in cyprus war. we love sporrts. and i am good at ski and bicycle. both of them makes feet straigt. i ride bike too much. i ride to far cities with my bike and tent. |
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Post by Nomad (Daz) on Jun 17, 2006 21:19:45 GMT 3
Well I walk also strait but I think there are different reasons for that. My girlfriend call me a bear. Its due to my body complex. Its harder for me to walk like in picture one. As we talk about Tengri. I see we have a Tengrikut who is the Tengri worshiper. Could you tell us more about Tengrizm and comment on any of our mistakes. It would be bad if we will make you angry. For I am a new person to this religion. I only know it through books and old stories from elders who are not Tengri worshipers. We have this pictures all over stepps and more on the mountains such as Altai and Tianshan close to Almaty. Many in Kazakhstan considers them as the picture of Tengri on earth. You may probably saw same pictures before its easy to remember it.  Whats your idea about it? |
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