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Post by Ardavarz on May 30, 2011 23:50:13 GMT 3
I found several meaning for "tang" in Old Turkic:
1) dawn, dawning
2) wonder, amazing, extraordinary
3) ruins
4) sieve, riddle
I guess here is relevant one of the first two.
About Isten - there isn't such word in Old Persian, but it resembles the name of Hittite sungod Istanu (Ishtanu) which belongs to the Pre-Indo-European language stratum.
BTW I remembered a phrase a friend of mine told me once according to some local legend allegedly being a Hunno-Bulgarian oath of allegiance: Tangra eshkesen. What do you make of that?
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Post by ancalimon on May 31, 2011 1:59:26 GMT 3
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Post by benzin on May 31, 2011 18:30:25 GMT 3
Is tangra eshkesen in hungarian or in turkic ? In hungarian it means Let tangra be the one to oath you. It would be eskessen in modern hungarian (pronounce eshkesshen)
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Post by hjernespiser on May 31, 2011 19:04:28 GMT 3
I think you guys are getting too carried away  |
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Post by benzin on May 31, 2011 19:17:41 GMT 3
Does citeing written "officiallly proven" codexes and books leads anywhere ? Think to it, all the books you know, mostly written before the internet age, any linguist, any historician couldnt just check their ideas so easily, they couldnt make too deep analysises when comparing 3-4-5 languages together, even if they could it might take incredible much time to get the necessery information. Now you can check anything comes to your mind in seconds, even if you come to false conclusions, so what, this is only a forum, we dont write history here. And if we do, there would be the first useful act on any history forum around the world |
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Post by hjernespiser on May 31, 2011 22:43:01 GMT 3
Well, deer in Tuvan is the cognate word for tenger. It also means a hoofed ruminant mammal that happens to grow beautiful antlers in English. The deer is an important herding animal amongst steppe tribes and they used to ritualistically dress horses up like deer. It is part of the shamanistic traditions of steppe tribes. The English must have borrowed the word from the Sarmatians.
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Post by hjernespiser on May 31, 2011 22:47:17 GMT 3
Igen means "yes" in Hungarian and it means "again" in Swedish. Maybe the ancient Hungarians borrowed this word from Germanic languages. When you do something again, that establishes a positive relationship towards the repeated action. Thus, answering "again" to a question could indicate "yes".
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Post by hjernespiser on May 31, 2011 22:52:42 GMT 3
OK, now completely serious... ;D
Benzin,
I agree with you that it is great to be able to look stuff up easily. We need methodology to ensure that we don't travel too far down a road of false conclusion.
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Post by ancalimon on May 31, 2011 23:06:04 GMT 3
Well, deer in Tuvan is the cognate word for tenger. It also means a hoofed ruminant mammal that happens to grow beautiful antlers in English. The deer is an important herding animal amongst steppe tribes and they used to ritualistically dress horses up like deer. It is part of the shamanistic traditions of steppe tribes. The English must have borrowed the word from the Sarmatians. You mean it could be related to spiraling antlers as well? thus daðire (circle) ? This also came to my mind but etymologists say that deer comes from "breath, cloud" Personally I usually have trouble following how etymologists reach their conclusions about Indo-European languages. But that's maybe because I'm not an etymologist.  One dheu I know in Turkish TUÐ (horsetail, flag,...) The other "dheu" I know in Turkish is that we repeat that word to call good omen or chase bad omen. "we say Tu Tu Tu". See this for a Turkish research on the subject: uqusturk.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/gok-tanri-inancindan-gunumuze-kadar-efsunlama-tu-tu-tulama-uygulamalari/turkoloji.cu.edu.tr/CUKUROVA/sempozyum/semp_2/kalafat.pdf |
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Post by ancalimon on May 31, 2011 23:16:03 GMT 3
Is tangra eshkesen in hungarian or in turkic ? In hungarian it means Let tangra be the one to oath you. It would be eskessen in modern hungarian (pronounce eshkesshen) In Turkish it means: Tengri which divides into equal pieces. or Tengri which intersects something from the center so that they are equal. ?? + ? OK, now completely serious... ;D Benzin, I agree with you that it is great to be able to look stuff up easily. We need methodology to ensure that we don't travel too far down a road of false conclusion. hjernespiser: I don't think we can progress towards what Tengri is in reality if we don't take bold steps. Not really much is known. All we can do is to unite our combined intellects to try to find a lead. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 31, 2011 23:57:48 GMT 3
The whirling dance of Mevlevi dervishes in Turkey is, as I suspect, related with the "whirling dance" recorded in Tang Chinese records regarding a dance made by Soghdians in China. It might be related with the dances of shamans which they make around fires.
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Post by Ardavarz on Jun 1, 2011 0:40:55 GMT 3
Is tangra eshkesen in hungarian or in turkic ? In hungarian it means Let tangra be the one to oath you. It would be eskessen in modern hungarian (pronounce eshkesshen) This make some sense considering that it was said to mean something about "oath of allegiance". Honestly, I don't know what language is that - allegedly Hunnic or Proto-Bulgarian. Unfortunately the source is unverifiable - it was from some obscure legend told to my friend by a long deceased priest in an isolated monastery in mountains of Central Bulgaria about thirty years ago. It might as well be some folk speculation based on Turkish or Hungarian, but I've always found it curious. |
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Post by benzin on Jun 1, 2011 12:05:36 GMT 3
Proto-Bulgarians are for long in my interest, officially there is no relation between the 2 nations, but there are hundreds of similarities in language and the past. For example an ancient bulgarian stone carving called madarski konnik or madara konnik. why madara ? does it mean anything ?
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Post by benzin on Jun 1, 2011 12:25:45 GMT 3
About the deer in hungarian : there are 2 kinds of deer, their common word is szarvas (sarvash) wich means animal with horn.
first is the dám deer, wich really looks like the deer on any scythian figure.
a dám (english : fallow deer)
a gím (latin : cervus elaphus)
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Post by ancalimon on Jun 1, 2011 23:00:18 GMT 3
Proto-Bulgarians are for long in my interest, officially there is no relation between the 2 nations, but there are hundreds of similarities in language and the past. For example an ancient bulgarian stone carving called madarski konnik or madara konnik. why madara ? does it mean anything ? madara means "trivial-common-insignificant-worthless"? But I doubt it's related in anyway. |
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