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Post by Temüjin on May 28, 2007 22:14:38 GMT 3
Israeli army is well trained and well equipped, unlike the Arabs. this is the core point. Arabs didn't had Helis in the first place and their tank crews were not properly trained.
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Post by nisse on May 28, 2007 23:29:18 GMT 3
that explains it
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Post by erdene on Jun 1, 2007 17:30:54 GMT 3
Was it the Yom Kumpur(Bad spelling sry) war, where the Egyptians did pretty well at the beginning because they had SAM cover and equiped with the latest Soviet anti-tank missiles. It was only when they where ordered to advance out of the SAM cover that they were destoryed by the Israelis. They destoryed number of Israeli tanks because they had no infantry support...thus giving birth to the modern AFVs which go into action with the tanks and if need be, deploys its infantry.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 3, 2007 23:07:41 GMT 3
Was it the Yom Kumpur(Bad spelling sry) war, Yes, the Yom Kippur War
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Post by ulgenbey on Aug 24, 2008 21:25:45 GMT 3
Hey everyone,my first post here.Very nice forum you have here.Celestial theme is cool aswell.
About tanks; I disagree that they are out-dated and no more useful.Greek general Epaminondas once said the different types of units were like different parts of the body,completing each other;the general being the head,the infantry the chest the cavalry being the arms etc. It is true that Tanks can be easy targets for attack helicopters and fighter jets if unprotected,but they are still essential on land.No other unit offers such a combination of speed,protection and firepower.Certain versions can be very useful in urban warfare aswell.The newest techonology in armor proved to be very effective in recent encounters,like the Leopard 2A6's in Afghanistan.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 25, 2008 1:31:44 GMT 3
Greetings Ulgenbey, welcome aboard
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Post by ALTAR on Aug 25, 2008 11:04:44 GMT 3
Ulgenbey Welcome to the board. www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Turkey-Signs-Deal-With-S-Korea-for-Altay-Tank-Project-05012/ Turkey Signs Deal With S. Korea for Altay Tank Project
03-Aug-2008 17:36 EDT
Turkey’s tank fleet is currently made up of American M-48s and M-60s, some of which have been modernized with Israeli cooperation into M-60 Sabra tanks, plus a large contingent of German Leopard 1s and Leopard 2s. That is hardy surprising. America and Germany are Turkey’s 2 most important geopolitical relationships, and this is reflected in Turkey’s choice of defense industry partners. The country’s industrial offset requirements ensure that these manufacturers have a long history of local partnerships to draw upon.
In recent years, however, a pair of new players have begun to make an impact on the Turkish defense scene. One was Israel, whose firms specialized in sub-systems, upgrades, and UAVs. The other is the Republic of [South] Korea, who has made inroads in the Turkish market with turboprop training aircraft, mobile howitzers, and now main battle tanks…
The ROK has been building a formidable local defense industry as a matter of policy, and this is now beginning to pay off in world class equipment for export. Relations with Turkey had been warm for some time, owing in part to the Turks’ heroic combat record in the Korean War. In recent years, that combination of warm relations and solid products has led to Turkish orders worth hundreds of millions of dollars for KT-1 turboprop training aircraft, and K-9/K-10 derived “Firtina” mobile howitzers.
In July 2007, South Korea’s inroads became undeniable, as discussions began concerning a deal to develop Turkey’s next generation tanks. That was a major upset, but it had yet to coalesce into a deal, and much can happen on the road to that final signature. By the end of July 2008, however, the ink was dry on a deal that will make Korea’s new XK2 the basis of Turkey’s co-produced Atilay tank.
Under this $400 million development deal, Turkey’s Otokar will build the tanks in cooperation with Aselsan, the Turkish Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation (MKEK), Roketsan and South Korea’s Hyundai Rotem. Reports indicate that Otokar’s factory in the northwestern province of Sakarya will be modernized with help from Hyundai.
The XK2 Black Panther will be used as the base design; the Firtina mobile howitzer precedent suggests that the Turks will incorporate a significant share of local electronics, and make some design changes along the way.
The Turks’ official goal is to design, test, and built the first Altay tank in 6.5 years, which would place the event in early 2015. The deal includes technology transfer worth $330 million dollars and the production of 4 prototypes worth $70 million dollars. Once development is complete, a second set of contracts will be signed. Turkey reportedly plans to produce at least 200 of the tanks in Turkey.
The South Korean Defense Ministry added that:
“The signing of the contract on the ROK-Turkey technology cooperation in tank development is expected to greatly help boost the cooperation between the two countries in the defense industry sector, while the Ministry of Defense and the DAPA plan to provide full support to ensure smooth technology cooperation throughout the entire process of tank development from designing to production and testing.
Meanwhile, Defense Minister Lee held ministerial talks with his Turkish counterpart in Ankara on July 28, in which the two agreed to continue building a cooperative relationship between their militaries….”
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 25, 2008 20:07:58 GMT 3
No other unit offers such a combination of speed,protection and firepower.Certain versions can be very useful in urban warfare aswell.The newest techonology in armor proved to be very effective in recent encounters,like the Leopard 2A6's in Afghanistan. tanks are just useful anymore because they are used against ill-prepared enemies. the days of classic armoured spearheads from ww2 are long over. the tank itself can only perform an auxiliary role as infantry support. the firepower of a battle tank is too much in urban warfare, mortars can do about the same damage, and mortars are actually better vs infantry. one of the key issues, and i know this from first hand, is the electronics that modern tanks use. an infantry-fired RPG can not destroy a modern battle tank but the electronics inside are fragile and can fail in such a case, that means the tank crew inside is virtually in the dark. specialized infantry support vehicles for urban warfare have yet to be developed.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 25, 2008 22:02:21 GMT 3
Great news, my dear Altar Yabghu
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Post by ulgenbey on Aug 30, 2008 18:31:02 GMT 3
No other unit offers such a combination of speed,protection and firepower.Certain versions can be very useful in urban warfare aswell.The newest techonology in armor proved to be very effective in recent encounters,like the Leopard 2A6's in Afghanistan. tanks are just useful anymore because they are used against ill-prepared enemies. the days of classic armoured spearheads from ww2 are long over. the tank itself can only perform an auxiliary role as infantry support. the firepower of a battle tank is too much in urban warfare, mortars can do about the same damage, and mortars are actually better vs infantry. one of the key issues, and i know this from first hand, is the electronics that modern tanks use. an infantry-fired RPG can not destroy a modern battle tank but the electronics inside are fragile and can fail in such a case, that means the tank crew inside is virtually in the dark. specialized infantry support vehicles for urban warfare have yet to be developed. Infantry support? Everyone except the germans thought so aswell when ww2 started The thing is,you cant move what a modern mbt offers by planes,you can carry 105mm. mortars at most by planes I think.I agree with the firepower being too much for urban warfare though.
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 30, 2008 20:32:19 GMT 3
yeah but nowadays tanks are only used as infantry support, ww2 was a big exception. tanks were invented as infantry support in ww1 and nowadays are still used this way. even Americans in ww2 did so, Germans could only make armoured spearheads with the help of the Close-Air support by the air force, something that is easily forgotten nowadays but without the air force Blitzkrieg as such was unthinkable. once germany lost dominance in the air their tanks were easy prey for allied attacks from the air. so for infantry support alone the tank is too expensive and specialized compared to a pure armoured car. and such times as ww2 won't happen again because nowadays focus is on firepower and air dominance, tanks are too vulnerable. another reason for Blitzkrieg sucess was because it was new and their enemies were weak and/or unprepared for such kind of warfare, this will not repeat itself.
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Post by berndybirdy on Mar 9, 2015 18:24:21 GMT 3
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Post by berndybirdy on Apr 4, 2015 14:36:21 GMT 3
Japanese tanks during World War II
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