|
|
Post by Turanist on Jan 2, 2015 11:51:11 GMT 3
I like to read from wikipedia alot because I can hardly find any other information anywhere else, sadly. Most early Asian Hun history is written by Chinese as far as I have seen/writen. So for example at link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ToumanIt says the following: First emperor of the Qin Dynasty, sent a 100,000-strong army headed by General Meng Tian to drive the Xiongnu northward for 1,000 li (about 416 km).[2] "Touman, unable to hold out against the Qin forces, had withdrawn to the far north, where he held out for over ten years."[3] So I am guessing this is written/founded by Chinese people/sources. How can we believe in this or how can they proof this? Because a bit of nationalism will change everything in text, sadly. I just gave the Touman wikipedia as example. I know that the Huns didnt leave much for us to discover, and that the enemies of the Huns wrote a bit. But enemies will stay enemies and wont write possitive or truth information. Dont you agree? |
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 2, 2015 12:11:52 GMT 3
Not most, but all historical sources about the Asian Huns (Xiongnu) was written by the Chinese. So far no any other source has been discovered about them.
That event described in Wiki is true, and yes we know it from Chinese sources only (from Shiji and Hanshu). After conquering all the other kingdoms and becoming an empire, the Qin Dynasty gathered a strong army and invaded the Ordos region just south of the northern arch of the Yellow River (Huanghe). Ordos was an area very rich in grass and it was an ideal place for feeding Hunnic horses, so the Huns lived there and used it as a base for their constant raids into northern China (Hunnic prescence in the region is also archaeologically confirmed as there are numerous bronze Hunnic artifacts discovered there, called "Xiongnu Ordos Bronze artifacts"). However, when Meng Tian invaded Ordos, Touman could not resist him and the Huns had to withdraw their political center to outer Mongolia in the north (this is also archaeoligically confirmed as Hunnic bronzes in Ordos disappear after the 3rd century BC following Qin conquest). Indeed Nicola di Cosmo has suggested that Touman's failure contributed to his own fall because as the loser of a very important region for the Huns, his legitimacy was shaken among the Hunnic people (this is related with the "Qut" or "Divine Legitimacy" belief of ancient Turkic peoples) and this "crisis" led to the rise of his son Modu. Di Cosmo theoritizes that such periods of "crisis" leads to a sudden change in the current ruling elite of such nomadic Inner Asian peoples and a new, younger, ambitious, powerful elite class emerges. This new elite solves the "crisis" and lays the foundation of a nomadic empire, as can also be observed with the rise of Temüjin and the establishment of the Mongol Empire. Modu and his retinue of ten thousand men killed Touman, acquired the control of the Huns, defeated most of the enemies of the Huns and founded a nomadic empire which lasted for several centuries.
|
|
|
|
Post by Turanist on Jan 2, 2015 14:15:23 GMT 3
So we are kinda forced to believe whats being said by the Chinese? (Researchers,historians etc.). It reminds me of how Romans decriped the Carthaginians. Example link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaR6Sx3ZRgAbout the Huns etc.These kind of historical events arent being thought or seen in country(s) such as Turkey. Its more like the Huns lived in these time periods, end of story. Which upsets me. Do you study ancient history? Or is it a hobby for you? I thought about studying Turkology. |
|
|
|
Post by Temüjin on Jan 2, 2015 15:42:43 GMT 3
i think you're wrong to assume nationalism in an age where there was no concept of nationalism. of course you can argue there was a civilization vs barbarians attitude, but the chinese tradition of writing history has been mostly free from major bias. recently a lot of the mythical pre-history of china that was only known through sagas has been mostly confirmed by archaeology. you're certainly not doing yourself a favour dismissing those sources.
|
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 3, 2015 20:59:18 GMT 3
Well as I said earlier, the Chinese sources are the only written sources about the Asian Huns we know so far. Why should they write something that did not happen? The Huns were defeated by the Qin Dynasty and they were expelled from the Ordos region. Archaeology also prooves this. Later the Huns became more powerful and acquired the control of all the lands to the north of the Chinese Great Wall.
I think Baysongor has described the case already.
I am doing PhD in Pre-Islamic Central Asian Turkic History and I will finish it this year.
|
|
