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Post by scythian on Apr 13, 2012 19:38:26 GMT 3
Me and my history professor have been engaged in a dialogue about who brought the stirrup into Europe. I always thought it was the Sarmatians who first introduced the stirrup to Europe.
Does anybody know the answer?
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Post by sarmat on Apr 13, 2012 20:41:55 GMT 3
Avars
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 13, 2012 22:29:41 GMT 3
Supposed to be Avars.
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Post by massaget on Apr 14, 2012 14:52:33 GMT 3
What counts as europe ? The first stirrups are clearly sarmatans from kuban river valley. The huns used it as well. But in large numbers the avars spread it in europe.
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Post by scythian on Apr 14, 2012 20:52:43 GMT 3
Thanks very much. Is there any refferences I can get a hold of?
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 14, 2012 22:07:15 GMT 3
Maybe we need to be clear about what is meant by "stirrups" and their use. The Avars brought the use of two metal stirrups on either side of the horse for use as a weapons delivery platform. Before that stirrups in Europe were mostly leather or rope (stirrup is Germanic for "step rope") and used only on one side of the horse for the purpose of mounting.
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Post by sarmat on Apr 14, 2012 23:53:06 GMT 3
I don't think stirrups and saddles were used in Europe before the Avars. Besides, that the Avars also introduced sabres to the West. All of that gave them enormous technological advantage over their opponents and was one of the reasons of their military success in Europe.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 18, 2012 9:41:08 GMT 3
I read in İlhami Durmuş's book Sarmatlar that the Sarmatians were the first to introduce stirrups to Europe, but all the Sarmatian depictions I saw from ancient artwork show them riding without stirrups.
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Post by aca on Apr 18, 2012 10:20:14 GMT 3
When I think about this topic, I can't really remember seeing stirrups among any archaeological finds older than Avars (I'm talking about Europe). I checked Jovan Kovačević's book "Avarski Kaganat" and it seems to agree with what sarmat wrote. But I have to say that even among Avar finds there are very small number of dicovered stirrups. Jovan Kovačević was one of the best Serbian archaeologists, and he had the opportunity to personally examine every single Avar grave and findings in the region. I know you guys can't read Serbian, but I'll share the link to the book because just seeing the illustrations is worth enough. (Just click the Avarski Kaganat at the very bottom of the page and it will direct you to Rapidshare) www.korisnaknjiga.com/avarski-kaganat-e-knjiga-2420
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Post by scythian on Apr 18, 2012 19:10:31 GMT 3
Thanks guys, I really appriciate the links and sources. This board is the best.
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Post by Ardavarz on Apr 20, 2012 0:08:04 GMT 3
When I think about this topic, I can't really remember seeing stirrups among any archaeological finds older than Avars (I'm talking about Europe). I checked Jovan Kovačević's book "Avarski Kaganat" and it seems to agree with what sarmat wrote. But I have to say that even among Avar finds there are very small number of dicovered stirrups. Jovan Kovačević was one of the best Serbian archaeologists, and he had the opportunity to personally examine every single Avar grave and findings in the region. I know you guys can't read Serbian, but I'll share the link to the book because just seeing the illustrations is worth enough. (Just click the Avarski Kaganat at the very bottom of the page and it will direct you to Rapidshare) www.korisnaknjiga.com/avarski-kaganat-e-knjiga-2420Thank you very much for this book! It's definitely a work of true merit. And actually I can understand most of the text .
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Post by aca on Apr 20, 2012 12:32:29 GMT 3
You are welcome. I suppose you are a Slavic person, or you speak some Slavic language
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Post by Ardavarz on Apr 21, 2012 0:23:28 GMT 3
Yes, my first language was Bulgarian, then I learned Russian too.
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Post by aca on Apr 21, 2012 8:44:51 GMT 3
Then I'm not surprised that you can understand Serbian. Nice to meet a neighbor here Enjoy the book
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 21, 2012 23:28:51 GMT 3
Downloaded it, though I can't understand Serbian, still better to have in archive Thanx again dear aca.
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