Stirrup brought west by Sarmatians?

[scythian]

Me and my history professor have been engaged in a dialogue about who brought the stirrup into Europe. I always thought it was the Sarmatians who first introduced the stirrup to Europe.

Does anybody know the answer?

[sarmat]

Avars

[hjernespiser]

Supposed to be Avars.

[massaget]

What counts as europe ? The first stirrups are clearly sarmatans from kuban river valley. The huns used it as well. But in large numbers the avars spread it in europe.

[scythian]

Thanks very much. Is there any refferences I can get a hold of?

[hjernespiser]

Maybe we need to be clear about what is meant by "stirrups" and their use. The Avars brought the use of two metal stirrups on either side of the horse for use as a weapons delivery platform. Before that stirrups in Europe were mostly leather or rope (stirrup is Germanic for "step rope") and used only on one side of the horse for the purpose of mounting.

[sarmat]

I don't think stirrups and saddles were used in Europe before the Avars. Besides, that the Avars also introduced sabres to the West. All of that gave them enormous technological advantage over their opponents and was one of the reasons of their military success in Europe.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I read in İlhami Durmuş's book Sarmatlar that the Sarmatians were the first to introduce stirrups to Europe, but all the Sarmatian depictions I saw from ancient artwork show them riding without stirrups.

[aca]

When I think about this topic, I can't really remember seeing stirrups among any archaeological finds older than Avars (I'm talking about Europe). I checked Jovan Kovačević's book "Avarski Kaganat" and it seems to agree with what sarmat wrote. But I have to say that even among Avar finds there are very small number of dicovered stirrups.

Jovan Kovačević was one of the best Serbian archaeologists, and he had the opportunity to personally examine every single Avar grave and findings in the region. I know you guys can't read Serbian, but I'll share the link to the book because just seeing the illustrations is worth enough. (Just click the Avarski Kaganat at the very bottom of the page and it will direct you to Rapidshare) www.korisnaknjiga.com/avarski-kaganat-e-knjiga-2420

[scythian]

Thanks guys, I really appriciate the links and sources. This board is the best.

[Ardavarz]

Apr 18, 2012 10:20:14 GMT 3 aca said:

When I think about this topic, I can't really remember seeing stirrups among any archaeological finds older than Avars (I'm talking about Europe). I checked Jovan Kovačević's book "Avarski Kaganat" and it seems to agree with what sarmat wrote. But I have to say that even among Avar finds there are very small number of dicovered stirrups.

Jovan Kovačević was one of the best Serbian archaeologists, and he had the opportunity to personally examine every single Avar grave and findings in the region. I know you guys can't read Serbian, but I'll share the link to the book because just seeing the illustrations is worth enough. (Just click the Avarski Kaganat at the very bottom of the page and it will direct you to Rapidshare) www.korisnaknjiga.com/avarski-kaganat-e-knjiga-2420

Thank you very much for this book! It's definitely a work of true merit. And actually I can understand most of the text .

[aca]

You are welcome. I suppose you are a Slavic person, or you speak some Slavic language

[Ardavarz]

Yes, my first language was Bulgarian, then I learned Russian too.

[aca]

Then I'm not surprised that you can understand Serbian. Nice to meet a neighbor here Enjoy the book

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Downloaded it, though I can't understand Serbian, still better to have in archive Thanx again dear aca.