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Post by Tobodai on Jan 22, 2012 22:52:50 GMT 3
I am really interested in mythology and my favorite figure is always the trickster figure. You find a lot of these in particularity in Native American mythology but usually everyone has one or two no matter where you look. I am not really finding much in Central Asia however. If anyone knows of any mythological beings or characters that are trickster-like (fickle, subversive, incredulous of morality, creative destruction, etc) could you enlighten me?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 23, 2012 13:06:19 GMT 3
There are similar figures in Altaic mythology (mythology of the Altai people in southern Siberia): www.answers.com/topic/altaic-mythology - obviously these derived from Semitic satan figures. |
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Post by Tobodai on Jan 23, 2012 21:59:59 GMT 3
Thats usually the case with many myths where people didnt write anything down before the coming of either Christianity or Islam. Thanks, I have heard of Erlik before but I never realized it could be taken as anything aside from a typical 'evil force'.
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Post by Ardavarz on Jan 24, 2012 2:32:21 GMT 3
Actually I don't think that Erlik is an "evil force", even though he is fearful deity as lord of the underworld and judge of the dead. Those myths where he is identified with the "devil" are probably later interpretations under Abrahamitic (most likely Christian) influence. Erlik is like an Altaic counterpart of the Greek Hades who also wasn't "evil" in our sense but only featured as such in contemporary movies which actually distort the ancient myths (I think that modern Westerners just need to have a "bad guy" in every story - it is peculiar to their worldview, and that's why they find hard to understand other cultures where such distinctions are not present like Japanese f.e.).
The name "Erlik Khan" could be understand from Turkic as "Human King" (from er - "man") and I believe that he was originally some figure similar to Indian Yama and Iranian Yima - the archetypical first king and lawgiver of the human race (in India Yama - "twin" of Manu - "man") who was also the first man to die and that's how he became "lord of the world of dead" and also "lord of justice". Later he became just deity related to death and his originally human nature was forgotten. However in Uighur and Mongolian Buddhism Erlik was identified exactly with this Indo-Buddhist deity Yama Dharmaraja ("King of Justice or Law" who pass judgement upon the dead according to their karma seen in his mirror) and so he became Erlik Nomun Khan (nom is Sogdian loanword for Sanskrit dharma - "law").
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 25, 2012 12:12:32 GMT 3
Actually the real "devil" or "satan" in Altai mythology is the Er Kishi mentioned in the link I gave.
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Post by snafu on Apr 10, 2012 6:44:35 GMT 3
Mongolian folklore has "Shagdar the Nut", the mischievous Lama. But he is a relatively modern invention.
I can't think of any one trickster god from steppe folklore. Most of the tricking was done by evil spirits or malicious shamans. There was no single embodiment of trickery. Sometimes ordinary animals would turn demonic and attack unsuspecting hunters and travelers. Other evil spirits would lead travelers astray by appearing as campfires in the distance at night. There were also demons who could possess the living.
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