Gypsies

[Temüjin]

actually gypsies are living the ultimate liberals/hippies/commies dream. total freedom, move around how it pleases them, don't believe in ownership and don't own anything themselves. ;D

[Asparuh]

Hello ,I was suprised when i saw that topic.

The gypsies are now the main problem in East Europe.
I read a material that Bulgaria have the biggest number of gipsy population in the European union.The thing is we are being under surveillance of the EU,so we have to make to gypsies somehow integrate in the country and have normal jobs like all the other people.Because of the gipsyes Europe is still delaying Bulgaria and Romania for the Shengen agreement.France already expulsed gipsyes from its territory,because of their nomadic way of life there.
Plus Countries like Hungary,Romania and Bulgaria with major number of gipsy population have to support them not paying electricity,water or any of the expenses which run on the goverment bills and the normal working people have to pay their bills from their salaries.Its not about being recist here,Its about how can we face this problem ?
So far i know from history :
Yes,the gipsyes probably migrated from India ,they do look like indians and probably joined the Ottoman forces in their conquest of Eastern Europe,.Thats why we have so much of them here among us nowadays.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I don't know for Hungary and Central Europe, but Gypsies existed in the Balkans, especially in Thrace and Constantinople during the Byzantine period before the Ottomans came.

[hjernespiser]

The word gypsy supposedly comes from the name of the country Egypt because it was believed by Europeans that they were from there. If I recall correctly, Gypies are believed to have come into Europe via a southern route, that they were first in the Byzantine Empire after having been in Persia.

[ancalimon]

Dec 14, 2011 11:24:31 GMT 3 hjernespiser said:

The word gypsy supposedly comes from the name of the country Egypt because it was believed by Europeans that they were from there. If I recall correctly, Gypies are believed to have come into Europe via a southern route, that they were first in the Byzantine Empire after having been in Persia.

Actually it's the other way around. Europeans (or Greeks) named Egypt as Egypt because they thought Masarians (Egyptians) looked like gypsies.

In Turkey there is a tendency to stereotype Romens (supposedly meaning male musician) as gypsies.

[hjernespiser]

Yea, that's why the ancient Greeks used the word Aigyptos, because the Gypsies played music for Strabo.

[Ardavarz]

The Greek name Aigyptos meaning "Egypt" or "Egyptian" (from a legendary eponym called Aigyps) was actually a distorted version of one of the names of the ancient Egyptian capital Memphis - Hut-Ka-Ptah ("Home of the Double of [the god] Ptah"). I am not sure when this popular belief that Gypsies come from Egypt has arised but it was hardly before the crusades. It is interesting that Gypsies' self-designation resembles indeed that of the ancient Egyptians who called themselves "romé" (meaning "people"). However the Romany (Gypsian) language is actually Indo-European which makes Indian origin more plausible.

I have heard also a Persian legend according to which the Gypsies were descendants of some musicians hired by Sasanian king Bahram V Gur to entertain his people during a famine. When the famine ended those musicians were not needed any more and were banished. From then on they became nomads and their descendants wander the world. It's a legend of course, but at least it shoes the appearance of Gypsies in Persia no earlier than 5th century.

[irelander]

Asparah calling their culture a problem is racist, but understandable . how much electricity and water do the gypsies use and do they find it themselves or steal it. I know steppe nomads use panels on there yurt for electricity, and here we have/had posts set up to give water and power to wanderers. The people around here may dislike them, but the Ban here longer than anyone so they have our respect.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Dec 14, 2011 11:24:31 GMT 3 hjernespiser said:

The word gypsy supposedly comes from the name of the country Egypt because it was believed by Europeans that they were from there. If I recall correctly, Gypies are believed to have come into Europe via a southern route, that they were first in the Byzantine Empire after having been in Persia.

That was also the case for the Ottoman Empire and early Modern Turkey, as gypsies at that time were called Kıptî and Kıptîyân meaning "Coptic". "Çingene" was another term which is still in use, but in a derogatory way, so now in official use they are called "Roman" (from Roma and Romany).

[massaget]

I have never heard of this Egypt thing, we call them Cigany and consider them as Indian inhabitants originally.

[hjernespiser]

The belief that Gypsies came from Egypt arose sometime in the Middle Ages. Wiktionary lists "Gypcyan" as the Middle English term (between late 11th and the late 15th century) and "gyptien" as Old French term. It is interesting that the Ottomans referred to them as Coptics. Somewhere, someone perceived them as being Egyptians even though that's been proved wrong now.

I've also heard of the Persian legend.

As an unrelated aside, I once received a package in the mail from a Hungarian "egyetem" (university) and the US Post Office marked the package as coming from Egypt. LOL!

[sarmat]

Gypsies don't have much in common with the steppe nomads. Not sure if they really fit "steppe history," though this section of the forum is about general history of Eurasia. There is no clear explanation of why their migration from India happened. But most likely they were an oppressed group that was forced to leave. There are many interesting theories on what exectly that group was, like for example, that they were a pariah group of Buddhists who were oppressed by the Hinduist majority, etc. I personally find the that explanation very unlikely though.

[irelander]

I THINK IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR THEM TO BE RAJPUTS. THEY ARE HERDERS IN WESTERN INDIA AND ARE NOMADIC LIKE THE GYPSIES. I BELIEVE GYPSIES HAVE A FEW THINGS IN COMMON WITH THE STEPPE NOMADS, SUCH AS BEING NOMADIC, STEALING OR RAIDING OTHER PEOPLES, BEING FAMILY ORIENTED, AND ORIGANALLY LIVING CLOSE TO THE EARTH, GATHERING AND FISHING LIKE MANY POEPLE DID WHEN FOOD WAS SCARCE.

[ancalimon]

One things to keep in mind is that the concept of "EVIL EYE" traveled with the gypsies. I think it is related with the "sharp eyes" of the NAGA.

[sarmat]

"Evil Eye Concept" has been existing in Europe at least from the time of the Ancient Greece and in the Middle East probably even earlier.