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Post by atabek on Jun 7, 2010 21:25:09 GMT 3
Karapapak language are a dialect of Azerbaijani Turkish. . So your exampele are irrelevant. And I did not knew we colonized nations. ;D And its not only language. Their culture and everything else is same. Its funny to even discuss this because even northeastern parts of Turkey are Azerbaijani Turks, as far west as Bayburt and Gumushane. Bayburt dialect are exact of Azerbaijani Turkish for instance. This is from Igdir in Turkey. ;D
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Post by Atabeg on Jun 8, 2010 0:48:07 GMT 3
First of all The Turks of turkey don't speak azeri. you are confusing the Eastern Anatolian Dialect with Azeri wich is quite close. You con't see passt the artifical border of modernday countries. do you think that one country speaks perfectly Isntabulite Turkish and the other Standart Azerbaijani? That is nonsense don't you know about the countless turkmen tribes who streched from the caspian all the way untill the agean sea? Dialects don't change from place to place they shift gradualy. Eastern Anatolian is closer to azeri than lets say standart Turkish because it's closer to azerbaycan than to Istanbul. The term Karapapak it's a in contrast to the rest of azeri wich are Shii. The term for Shii Turkmens or azeri's was Kizilbas in the Ottoman Empire. karapapks are sunni
You my friend think inside the box it is time for you to come out. I'm not offending the people of Azerbaycan or it's proud tradition of Asiklik all i'm saying is that this tradition is older than that and more universal amongst the Turkmen tribes of various countries!
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Post by atabek on Jun 8, 2010 6:31:22 GMT 3
Its not closer, its exactly same. From Igdir to Gumushane. Can you tell me why governor of Bayburt explains that Bayburt language are Azerbaijani Turkish? www.bayburtvakfi.org.tr/?SXNsZW09SGFiZXJEZXRheSZIYWJlck5vPTU5JkthdGVnb3JpTm89MTY="Bayburt Ağzı Azerbaycan’dan geliyor Dil-Kültür ilişkisi göz önünde bulundurulduğunda Dede Korkut Hikayelerine konu olan olayların geçtiği coğrafyalarda kullanılan dilin semantik (anlam), morfolojik (yapı) ve fonetik (ses)açılarından benzerlik göstermesi gayet doğaldır. Bu bağlamda özellikle Azarbeycan ağzı ile Bayburt ağzı büyük benzerlikler göstermektedir. Aşağıdaki örneklerde Azarbeycan ağzı ile Bayburt ağzının ses, yapı, ve anlam özellikleri açısından ne kadar benzer olduğunu kanıtlamaktadır." Karapapaks are Sunni only in Turkey. Think why?
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Post by atabek on Jun 8, 2010 6:41:26 GMT 3
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Post by Atabeg on Jun 8, 2010 10:51:44 GMT 3
Member Atabek (Title Tarqan 54 posts)
The information that you have provided isn’t something new to us. Everybody knows that the Eastern Dialect of Turkish is quite closer to Azerbaijani Turkish than Standard Anatolian (Istanbullite) Turkish. Witch I have said on several occasions, and frankly I am getting tired of repeating myself! Eastern Anatolian Turkish doesn’t only sound more like Azerbaijani Turkish but it has a lot of vocabulary and grammatical similarities. This is because they are both languages of the Turkic family’s Oghuz branch. And I already explained how dialects work by gradually shifting from region to region.
As we come to the Bayburt dialect, that is not proof… Nomads can settle quite a few Kilometers from their ‘original’ home (Nomads roam where ever they want), settling amongst other peoples. What is my counter argument to your Bayburt ‘hypothesis’ ? I have a friend from Aksaray Turkey (Central Anatolia). He comes from a place called Acemhöyük (Persian mound). They we are called pakirbas or bakirpas were we come from. Bakirbas is a name given to the Turkmens because of the copper ornaments of the women’s headwear. “We are also known as Hoylu” in that region he said. Hoy or Xoy is a town in Southern Azerbaycan (Iran). “We also talk like gelirem, gidirem” he said. You have no knowledge of the tribe migration of the Turkmen tribes from “Azerbaycan” (South and North) to Anatolia. Quite a few did including the Karapapaks due to the Russian invasion of the Caucasus and to some extend due to the regime change in Iran (not the Islamic revolution) I think. When the Puppet Pahlavi Dynasty replaced the Qajar dynasty
Member Atabek you lack certain qualities one needs when debating, first of all you refuse to read the given information or arguments by other member properly or at all I’m beginning to think. Because of that you continuo you’re counter arguments based on your own fantasy or “true” & “sacred” information, the rest of us never had and will have access to. Frankly I’m getting tired of your monologues, it’s like the rest of us are talking to a wall. (I also like to thank Sarmat Shad for his information on this subject). I’m beginning to think that you member Atabek also lack logic at this point.
To conclude: I will no longer stand your attitude of discarding information of other members and especially staff members! And your posting of what I’m beginning to think is Azerbaijani propaganda to some extent.
This is my only warning to you Member Atabek!
This is a warning, not an official one but if you continue to reply without properly reading comments of other members I WILL give you an official warning!
There is no place for your kind of debate, discussion or call it whatever you like. If you're not going to respect at least READ the opinions of other members!
Atabeg Yabgu Global Moderator of Steppe History Forum
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 8, 2010 23:58:08 GMT 3
Just catching up here...
First of all, please do NOT use that UNESCO Intangible Heritage site as some sort of proof of cultural ownership. It has been quite offensive to many that China has registered "Mongolian art of singing: Khoomei" using that UN body.
Second, I don't know all the regional nuances, but to me the asik tradition is clearly derived from the ancient Turkic bardic tradition of epic storytelling.
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Post by atabek on Jun 9, 2010 6:39:36 GMT 3
First of all maybe you should do some searching? Azerbaijan are a Turkic nation.
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Post by atabek on Jun 9, 2010 6:48:41 GMT 3
Member Atabek (Title Tarqan 54 posts) The information that you have provided isn’t something new to us. Everybody knows that the Eastern Dialect of Turkish is quite closer to Azerbaijani Turkish than Standard Anatolian (Istanbullite) Turkish. Witch I have said on several occasions, and frankly I am getting tired of repeating myself! Eastern Anatolian Turkish doesn’t only sound more like Azerbaijani Turkish but it has a lot of vocabulary and grammatical similarities. This is because they are both languages of the Turkic family’s Oghuz branch. And I already explained how dialects work by gradually shifting from region to region. As we come to the Bayburt dialect, that is not proof… Nomads can settle quite a few Kilometers from their ‘original’ home (Nomads roam where ever they want), settling amongst other peoples. What is my counter argument to your Bayburt ‘hypothesis’ ? I have a friend from Aksaray Turkey (Central Anatolia). He comes from a place called Acemhöyük (Persian mound). They we are called pakirbas or bakirpas were we come from. Bakirbas is a name given to the Turkmens because of the copper ornaments of the women’s headwear. “We are also known as Hoylu” in that region he said. Hoy or Xoy is a town in Southern Azerbaycan (Iran). “We also talk like gelirem, gidirem” he said. You have no knowledge of the tribe migration of the Turkmen tribes from “Azerbaycan” (South and North) to Anatolia. Quite a few did including the Karapapaks due to the Russian invasion of the Caucasus and to some extend due to the regime change in Iran (not the Islamic revolution) I think. When the Puppet Pahlavi Dynasty replaced the Qajar dynasty Member Atabek you lack certain qualities one needs when debating, first of all you refuse to read the given information or arguments by other member properly or at all I’m beginning to think. Because of that you continuo you’re counter arguments based on your own fantasy or “true” & “sacred” information, the rest of us never had and will have access to. Frankly I’m getting tired of your monologues, it’s like the rest of us are talking to a wall. (I also like to thank Sarmat Shad for his information on this subject). I’m beginning to think that you member Atabek also lack logic at this point. To conclude: I will no longer stand your attitude of discarding information of other members and especially staff members! And your posting of what I’m beginning to think is Azerbaijani propaganda to some extent. This is my only warning to you Member Atabek! This is a warning, not an official one but if you continue to reply without properly reading comments of other members I WILL give you an official warning! There is no place for your kind of debate, discussion or call it whatever you like. If you're not going to respect at least READ the opinions of other members! Atabeg Yabgu Global Moderator of Steppe History Forum Warning? Did I use any wrong language or something? Can you tell me why you get upset? Learn the defination of similiarity. You cannot call an exact thing as "similiar". Standard Anatolian Turkish and Azerbaijani Turkish are similiar. But Igdir, Bayburt, Kars, Ardahan etc...dialects are exactly same. Look at the words above comparing Azerbaijani Turkish and Bayburt dialect. Dozens of word 100% same. You must be either blind or...
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Post by Atabeg on Jun 9, 2010 11:24:09 GMT 3
Member Atabek (Title Tarqan 54 posts) The information that you have provided isn’t something new to us. Everybody knows that the Eastern Dialect of Turkish is quite closer to Azerbaijani Turkish than Standard Anatolian (Istanbullite) Turkish. Witch I have said on several occasions, and frankly I am getting tired of repeating myself! Eastern Anatolian Turkish doesn’t only sound more like Azerbaijani Turkish but it has a lot of vocabulary and grammatical similarities. This is because they are both languages of the Turkic family’s Oghuz branch. And I already explained how dialects work by gradually shifting from region to region. As we come to the Bayburt dialect, that is not proof… Nomads can settle quite a few Kilometers from their ‘original’ home (Nomads roam where ever they want), settling amongst other peoples. What is my counter argument to your Bayburt ‘hypothesis’ ? I have a friend from Aksaray Turkey (Central Anatolia). He comes from a place called Acemhöyük (Persian mound). They we are called pakirbas or bakirpas were we come from. Bakirbas is a name given to the Turkmens because of the copper ornaments of the women’s headwear. “We are also known as Hoylu” in that region he said. Hoy or Xoy is a town in Southern Azerbaycan (Iran). “We also talk like gelirem, gidirem” he said. You have no knowledge of the tribe migration of the Turkmen tribes from “Azerbaycan” (South and North) to Anatolia. Quite a few did including the Karapapaks due to the Russian invasion of the Caucasus and to some extend due to the regime change in Iran (not the Islamic revolution) I think. When the Puppet Pahlavi Dynasty replaced the Qajar dynasty Member Atabek you lack certain qualities one needs when debating, first of all you refuse to read the given information or arguments by other member properly or at all I’m beginning to think. Because of that you continuo you’re counter arguments based on your own fantasy or “true” & “sacred” information, the rest of us never had and will have access to. Frankly I’m getting tired of your monologues, it’s like the rest of us are talking to a wall. (I also like to thank Sarmat Shad for his information on this subject). I’m beginning to think that you member Atabek also lack logic at this point. To conclude: I will no longer stand your attitude of discarding information of other members and especially staff members! And your posting of what I’m beginning to think is Azerbaijani propaganda to some extent. This is my only warning to you Member Atabek! This is a warning, not an official one but if you continue to reply without properly reading comments of other members I WILL give you an official warning! There is no place for your kind of debate, discussion or call it whatever you like. If you're not going to respect at least READ the opinions of other members! Atabeg Yabgu Global Moderator of Steppe History Forum Warning? Did I use any wrong language or something? Can you tell me why you get upset? Learn the defination of similiarity. You cannot call an exact thing as "similiar". Standard Anatolian Turkish and Azerbaijani Turkish are similiar. But Igdir, Bayburt, Kars, Ardahan etc...dialects are exactly same. Look at the words above comparing Azerbaijani Turkish and Bayburt dialect. Dozens of word 100% same. You must be either blind or... Everybody knows that the Eastern Dialect of Turkish is quite closer to Azerbaijani Turkish than Standard Anatolian (Istanbullite) Turkish. Witch I have said on several occasions, and frankly I am getting tired of repeating myself! Eastern Anatolian Turkish doesn’t only sound more like Azerbaijani Turkish but it has a lot of vocabulary and grammatical similarities. --- This is what I have said, and what you have ignored i think because you just said the same in less words. Member Atabek this is an Official warning - Obey the orders of the Staff and respect the Staff members. you have broken this rule for the second time. I would have given you an official warning, but our Yasa states that everybody shal get 2 unofficial warning. However if you disrespect ANY member on this forum again, wether it with insults or nor reading there post properly and replying (wich I also find as an offense towards a member). I shall have no more patients with you!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 9, 2010 14:09:34 GMT 3
Ok, thread closed.
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