Turks/Kalmyks

[Subu'atai]

turkolog.narod.ru/info/I371.htm

I need a review of this new information and personally I don't trust it. It's a tad... troubling. Already there are Tatars who consider themselves Mongolic rather then Turkic but such incidents are considered results of Slavs who couldn't tell the difference. But... KALMYKS TOO? No no. Someone review this for me please.

[sarmat]

I wonder why are you so surprised with this information and what causes your concerns?

These are just known facts that Kalmyks were mixing with Turkic tribes of Kazakhstan and North Caucasus. There are Turkic clans within Kalmyks and Kalmyk clans within Turks of Caucasus and Kazakhstan and even within Caucasians.

That was totally normal and natural. In fact, I have no doubt that Kalmyks would complitely melt in the Turkic nomades of South Russian steppe, but for their Buddhist religion. Buddhism that what saved Kalmyks from total assimilation.

And about melting with neighboring people... Well, it always was considered normal in the Steppe.

[Subu'atai]

I am very aware of intermixing but the thing is... this is an blood identity mate. I know even Khalkhas have over half of their blood with historical Turkic tribes but... WHAT THE H....? Seriously. My family has always been of Mongolic identity not Turkic. This is weird. What are we? "Mutts of the steppes?" But of course, there was no word for "race", no word for "Mutt".

As for Buddhism. Buddhism justified genocide, then saved our people from assimilation sure. Funny really. History took a weird twist on that turn. Ne ways... I dont really know what to make of this with the history of my people. What were the ancestries of Torghuud and Uriankhai? My parents and relatives don't even freaking know nor do I.

This is... confusing to say the least.

[sarmat]

Nomades always have been "mutts of the Steppe." The key was the culture. Whether one considered himself "culturally" Kalmyk, Nogai or Kazakh, genetically, however, they probably were all brothers...

More importantly, that "ethnic stuff" was invented only in the 19th century. Before that, different peoples, and, especially, nomades didn't have any idea about "ethnicity" at all. "You speak our language, respect our gods, that's enough." They wouldn't understand the arguments about being "pure Turk," "Mongol" etc. All of that is a recent brainwash from the last two centuries...

[Subu'atai]

I guess so, unfortunately... it's a problem that exists in modern day. Always wondered why I suspected so many stuff was a bit "off". With linguistics Oirat language is Mongolic, yet with that source, I dunno. But of course that's why Altaic categorisation with linguistics exists.

Meh, learn more everyday. By the time I reach 40 in another 25 yrs, bet my head will explode. So argh, think I'll settle with just going...

"IM DZUNGAR" and whatever either Mongolic or Turkic, stuff ya! LOL! Meh I think I'm getting old and working too hard. Brain is going koo-koo.

[abdulhay]

what does mutts of the Steppe mean.

I agree with sarmat that people in epoch before didnt use nationalism as a term its a invention after the french revolution,

for example people in central asia considerd themselvs muslims and not turkic on first hand which some people tend to still


I tend to belive in ideology instead of nationalism, I think it would be better if people would think of each other as human beings instead of this and that.

for example a real social democrat thinks in this way, also social liberals tend to do this,

[Subu'atai]

Sorry about last nite, was a tad drunk... just a tad xD... when I encountered this and went WTH?
(Obviously not too drunk since my spelling was intact lol)

And "Mutts of the steppe", oh nevermind, its a bad joke, and folks dont seem to get it lol. But yes, fact is there was no word "race" or "mutt" on the steppes. I was just shocked at all of this. Intermixing sure, but not origin, guess I underestimated the level of intermixing itself.

Forgive me, I wake up, work, and socialise in a modern Western world each day... I have to keep reminding myself who my people were.

[hjernespiser]

The names were being overloaded with meaning.

Oirats are considered Mongolic, but the word was applied historically to Altai Turkic tribes too. Same with the word Uriankhai and even Tuva.

[Deleted]

AFAIK, Kalmyks are Mongolic not Turkic. They are even Buddhist.