Scythian or other Aryan people found in China?

[scythian]

I was listening to the radio, and I heard that they found some burials in China that contained 3,000 old Aryan skeletons. Are these just Scythians? Or is there something more going on here?

I heard it mentioned that they contained genetic data that linked them to Eastern European Slavs.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I guess you mean the Tarim Mummies

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies

[Alanus]

The Tarim-Urumchi mummies represent a people related to the Tokarians, Indo-European speakers. But other "Aryan" (bad name to use-- politically incorrect) peope have been found in both China and Mongolia/Siberia. The northeastern Iranian Scythians/Saka had ranged the steppes below the Altai, also far to the east.

In the movie Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, you can see the remaining Caucasian in a bit actor during the Makla-Makan robbing scene. The guy has light brown hair and looks like an Irishman. The commentary by James Shamus refers to him as "the white guy."

The Urumchi people were Caucasians, but the Scythians/Saka were not totally (genetically) Europoids. A lot of Asian there.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Greetings Alanus, welcome aboard

[Alanus]

Apr 26, 2010 11:27:34 GMT 3 H. İhsan Erkoç said:

Greetings Alanus, welcome aboard

Thanks for the welcome!

I've been studying the relationships from the Cimmerians to the Alans and Taifali for about 10 years. I'm an Asian film buff, and I shoot steppe compound bows as a hobby, authentic ones made from sinew, horn, and fish glue. As a Roman Auxilliary reenactor, I assume the role of "Alanus" (my real name is Alan), a late 1st century Roxolanus in the Cohors I Pannoniarum. Hope to write a book about the Saka/Massagetae/Alans in the near future.

I hope to be helpful. You guys seem like a good bunch. ;D

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Oh that's awesome

[Alanus]

Here's a little more about these Indo-Europeans who lived in Xinjiang Province.

Steve Shelby has located a nearly perfect early bow at the Urumchi Museum. It's of the oldest "cupid bow" type, the same as seen on Greek vases. See-- "Scythian-Style Bows Discovered in Xinjiang" by Dede Dyer; google Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies.

These people, the Tokarians, also went down into India and became acquainted with early monks who followed the teachings of Sakyamuni. They then brought Buddhism back into China.

There are good photographs in The Mummies of Urumchi by Elizabeth Wayland Barber. These include the mummies themselves, such as a blue-eyed baby, the plaids that are identical to Celtic ones found in the Halstadt salt mines, and a painting of a red-headed Tokarian with a Buddhist offering.

There are quite a few of their religious ms in Tokarian A, but they spoke a more "modern" Tokarian A. The Tokarians were called the Greater Yu-chi and Lesser Yu-chi by the Chinese. They moved into Sogdiana and were later known as the Kushans.

[bachmat]

hello,
I am new to this forum - my name is Dario but I like my nickname 'bachmat' which i Tatar-Turkish for a swift, hardy but smaller war horse (pony if we go by the North American Great Plains nomads standards) - I have a blog dedicated to Eurasian warhorses, Polish and other premodern riders Saka eg dariocaballeros.blogspot.com/2009/11/massagetan-warrior-i.html and other Iranian preislamic warriors eg dariocaballeros.blogspot.com/2008/10/salve-world.html dariocaballeros.blogspot.com/2009/06/progress-and-corrections-on-king-of.html , Ottoman Turkish cavalry and horse tack dariocaballeros.blogspot.com/2010/05/turkish-horses-of-cilicia-pedias.html etc - www.dariocaballeros.blogspot.com

Ad rem, subject of the nomad bows associated with Saka & Tocharians can be seen in these article by S. Shelby www.atarn.org/chinese/Yanghai/yanghai.htm
Bede Dwyer www.atarn.org/chinese/scythian_bows.htm
and this one on the late Saka/ proto Xiungnu bows www.atarn.org/chinese/miran/Bows%20and%20Arrows%20from%20Miran.html
Due to their location Russian scientists have made the most important and equally amazing discoveries related to Scythians/Saka/ protoXiungnu and published books about it - my favorite is ' Vsadniki Ukoka. Novosibirsk, 2001' by Natalya Polos'mak who has published also a wonderful monograph about Altai Saka material culture with L.L. Barkova titled 'Kostyum i tekstil' pazyryktsev Altaya (IV–III vv. do n.e.).' Novosibirsk, 2005.
some of her books on Amazon www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=polosmak&x=0&y=0
her articel on the Pazyryk men's hats and helmets can be found here , but it is in Russian, new.hist.asu.ru/skif/pub/skep/pol.html The whole site is dedicated to the archeology of the Altai Saka new.hist.asu.ru/skif/pub/pub11.html

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Greetings Bachmat, welcome aboard and thanks for the nice links

[hjernespiser]

Are others on this forum familiar with Stephen Selby's work at all?

[mesinik]

Apr 9, 2010 15:01:21 GMT 3 scythian said:

I was listening to the radio, and I heard that they found some burials in China that contained 3,000 old Aryan skeletons. Are these just Scythians? Or is there something more going on here?

I heard it mentioned that they contained genetic data that linked them to Eastern European Slavs.

It might be better to say, Eastern European Slaws might be linked to Tarim mummies, not vice versa. Eastern Slaws did appear much later and probably only a small minority of them came from the "original Slavic home". Par example, quite a lot of people switched to the Slavic languages since the Varyag empire of Rus (with capital city in Kiev) accepted the Byzantine Christianity as state ideology.

[ancalimon]

Does anyone know how they determined what language those mummies spoke?

[nomadsoul]

~5% of China's total population carries West Eurasian (or Eastern European) Y-DNA