Finnish people

[aynur]

I wanted to start this new topic because it had been a long controversy in Finland itself of the actual roots of Finland-- in fact, we have skinheads and white supremacists here that consider us indo-germans, which isn't true. If you only look at the language of Finland, it's finno-ugric. Now, being a little turanist myself I consider that the Finnish people are from the east, not west.

However, the history of Finland might cause a little hassle if you compare it to the origins of the Finnish people. In fact, swedes who are of indo-german origin originally took and christianized the country in the early 1200s, smelting most of the population with the swedes. Because of this, in the school system of Finland, everybody, even immigrants like somalis and turkish have to learn how to speak swedish-- it's in fact a subject in school and I've strongly opposed to it.

However, I myself dont believe that I am finno-swedish from my father's side since he's got significantly darker skin than most Finnish people and his facial characteristics, like mine's, have alot of turanid features. Same thing with my mother.

I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter. You can also talk about the early history of Finland, from the times of the shamans all the way to the Winter War against the Soviet Union

[ceonni]

The Finns share lots of chromosonal similarities with the Buryats, who in turn shares some affinities to northern Koreans and the Japanese.

I believe the "Buyeo" nation did make a migration east from the lake Baykal region. And they at the same time made a journey out to the homeland of the Finns. This occurred around 3000-2000 years ago.

[aynur]

Jan 26, 2010 21:55:05 GMT 3 ceonni said:

The Finns share lots of chromosonal similarities with the Buryats, who in turn shares some affinities to northern Koreans and the Japanese.

I believe the "Buyeo" nation did make a migration east from the lake Baykal region. And they at the same time made a journey out to the homeland of the Finns. This occurred around 3000-2000 years ago.

I wouldn't personally say that they are descednants of inhabitants of the Lake Baykal region. It's just the fact that Finland has europeanized so much because of the fact that it was under Swedish control, then Russian as a grand duchy ( 800-900 years in total ) and most are lutherian christians ( orthodox christian myself, most propably from my mother's side ) that you don't even notice the altaic/uralic culture here anymore, 500,000 of the 5 million people who live here live in the capital Helsinki and the only place to find similiar culture that you find in the east is northern Lapland among the Sami ( saamelaiset in finnish, the language is saame ). That also sort of isolates the estonians and finns from the rest of the finno-ugric peoples. Also, alot of foreigners who visit here often express that the finnish language sounds alot like japanese/korean, therefore the language doesn't have much to do with indo-german languages except some borrowed words from german and swedish ( keksi = biscuit, in swedish/german = keksen ) and it's classified as finno-ugric language. At least 80 percent of the people who live in Finland and speak finnish and claim to be fully finnish and are blonde/have caucasoid facial characteristics most certainly have descednancy in Sweden or Russia or the Baltic countries.

[ALTAR]

I think these skinheads are mostly belonged Swedish Minority of your country. Swedish Culture Imperialism is very high potential danger for Finland in my opinion. Finns are ethnically Uralic People and different from Norwegians, Swedish, Danns. But there is a huge Sweedish Influence in your south coast and metropol regions.

Aynur, would you give some information about the Swedish Invasion of Finland? Do you have national heroes who resisted them?

Btwn I am an admirer of Finns Winter War against commies

[aynur]

Jan 28, 2010 0:29:33 GMT 3 ALTAR said:

I think these skinheads are mostly belonged Swedish Minority of your country. Swedish Culture Imperialism is very high potential danger for Finland in my opinion. Finns are ethnically Uralic People and different from Norwegians, Swedish, Danns. But there is a huge Sweedish Influence in your south coast and metropol regions.

Aynur, would you give some information about the Swedish Invasion of Finland? Do you have national heroes who resisted them?

Btwn I am an admirer of Finns Winter War against commies

I'm not familiar with any national heroes who resisted the swedish colonialization/imperialization of the country but I think there was some mentioning about some shamans and local tribes resisting their influence during history class when I was a kid. There wasn't an actual swedish invasion, the swedes and other germanic peoples from the west came in waves in time until some groups established themselves here and expanded of what was to become the Swedish Empire. Swedish language was usually the language of the aristocracy and basically every aristocrat was of swedish origin, the finnish language was the language mostly used by peasants and the normal people who had no word in politics-- it was sort of a linguistic racism. Similiar thing happened during russian rule when finnish people we're forced to learn russian language. And, in fact, swedish language wasn't a subject in finnish schools until the late 1970s because the swedish minority wanted so. Christianity was introduced to the finns from the three ( or four ) crusades conducted by the swedes.

Here's a Sami family taken from northern Norway ( which was never inhabitated by nordic and germanic peoples ) around 1900.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg

As you can propably see, all of them have turanid/mongoloid features and characteristics in their faces. They all also have black hair, same thing with my father.

[ALTAR]

Jan 28, 2010 0:42:15 GMT 3 aynur said:

I'm not familiar with any national heroes who resisted the swedish colonialization/imperialization of the country but I think there was some mentioning about some shamans and local tribes resisting their influence during history class when I was a kid. There wasn't an actual swedish invasion, the swedes and other germanic peoples from the west came in waves in time until some groups established themselves here and expanded of what was to become the Swedish Empire. Swedish language was usually the language of the aristocracy and basically every aristocrat was of swedish origin, the finnish language was the language mostly used by peasants and the normal people who had no word in politics-- it was sort of a linguistic racism. Similiar thing happened during russian rule when finnish people we're forced to learn russian language. And, in fact, swedish language wasn't a subject in finnish schools until the late 1970s because the swedish minority wanted so. Christianity was introduced to the finns from the three ( or four ) crusades conducted by the swedes.

Here's a Sami family taken from northern Norway ( which was never inhabitated by nordic and germanic peoples ) around 1900.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg

As you can propably see, all of them have turanid/mongoloid features and characteristics in their faces. They all also have black hair, same thing with my father.

Ok Aynur. Thanks for detailed info.

I know Saami people. I advice two films for the guys who want to have information about Saamis

Pathfinder (1987) or Ofelas


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder_(1987_film)
www.imdb.com/title/tt0093668/

The Kautokeino Rebellion or Kautokeino-opprøret (2008)


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kautokeino-oppr%C3%B8ret
www.imdb.com/title/tt0479937/

[aynur]

There was also a mentioning of a group of Sami people emigrating to Canada and Nova Scotia with the help of the United States government in order to teach the native americans reindeering.

[sarmat]

The first movie is actually about the fighting between Finns (more precisely Chuds who were their ancestors) and Sami.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Hey Altar, do you have the second movie?

[ALTAR]

Yes, I have.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Cool, let's watch it in a free time The first one as well, I know you have it

[ceonni]

I find the Finnish language is populated with even, flat and full syllables. This gives it a curiously even, flat and full quality like the Cantonese language, which has a bit of contrast with most northern Altaic and Korean languages which are given a gloomier quality due to the "reservedness" of their vowels. This "northernness" also shadows over most northerly Sino-Tibetan folks such as northern Mandarin and Tibetan.

Japanese is very unique. I'd say probably it shares a bit of commonality with Manchurian (but probably not much considering that Manchurian is probably a lot closer to Korean in esthetic appeal). The simple open syllables of Japanese is definitely less reserved than the Altaic. But these are not splashing full syllables like Finnish or Cantonese.

To visualize this, I'd say most Altaic languages sound like a Mongolian steppes pasture with considerable elevations of slopes and are occasionally shadowed by clouds in the sky. Northern Mandarin and Korean sound like a continuation of these slopes into a plateau that has cultivated patches of garlic.

Finnish sounds like taking a splash into an open, natural pond surrounded by a forest after a healthy sauna on a sunny day.

Japanese sounds like a stream rushing through pebbles of the similar sizes and shapes.

I've heard a Finnish news commentator on radio. He laughs a lot like the Chinese. It is funny, considering the fact that he's probably a big burly man that looks quite different from a typical Chinese.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Finland

Jan 28, 2010 0:07:07 GMT 3 aynur said:

Jan 26, 2010 21:55:05 GMT 3 ceonni said:

express that the finnish language sounds alot like japanese/korean, therefore the language doesn't have much to do with indo-german languages except some borrowed words from german and swedish ( keksi = biscuit, in swedish/german = keksen ) and it's classified as finno-ugric language. At least 80 percent of the people who live in Finland and speak finnish and claim to be fully finnish and are blonde/have caucasoid facial characteristics most certainly have descednancy in Sweden or Russia or the Baltic countries.

[ceonni]

Uralic nations like the Finns and Magyars of course have the majority of their genetic makeup absorbed from neighboring populations, as is usually the case of a migration that occurred after the advent of Agriculture 6000 years ago. For the same reason, Anatolian Turks look primarily "in the neighborhood" with their Caucasus and Balkan neighbors, and Sudanese Arabs with their East African non-Arab neighbors, etc.

However, what really matters when we look at the linguistic uniqueness of the Finnish and Magyar peoples is of course the ancestral carriers of the original Finnish or Magyar Y Chromosome and MtDNA from the Uralic forests into its current location. Over time, of course descendants of these carriers absorbed so much genes from surrounding neighbors to the point that the Finns become "in place" with their Scandinavian neighbors and Magyars "in place" with their Slavic and Germanic neighbors. However the original Uralic Y Chromosome and MtDNA remain relatively stable.

And if we are to believe in the decisiveness in such ancestral DNA in shaping the ethnic psychological characters, then we do tend to find out commonalities between the Finnish, Hungarian folks with the Buryats and the Japanese nations. These nations tend to be easily affected by winter depression.

But of course, of the 13 similarities among the Finns, Hungarians, Buryats and the Japanese, there are perhaps 130 similarities the Finns and Hungarians share with the Swedes, Lithuanians, Austrians and the Czechs.

Ancestry is very elusive. It is the Finnish and Hungarian languages that are unmistakably Uralic. They will only become entirely dismantled of their Uralic characters when they become creoles and pidgins.

[hjernespiser]

ceonni,

I really like how you think.

Finnish has always sounded like some sort of staccato cross between Slavic and Swedish to me. And I'm talking just about the sound, not the words or grammar.

P.S. Should this topic be moved under Ethnic History?

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I'm not sure, because the Finnish peoples were not really a part of the steppe as far as I know