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Post by abdulhay on Jan 7, 2010 0:35:51 GMT 3
I read that steppe people worshiped swords, like the sarmatians, and other steppe people, which gave the legenf of arthur and the sword.
But my question is were does it come from, did all the steppe people worship it?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 7, 2010 19:22:56 GMT 3
According to Han-shu, the Asian Huns worshipped a special type of dagger and even had a temple for that.
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Post by Alanus on Apr 26, 2010 7:50:41 GMT 3
I read that steppe people worshiped swords, like the sarmatians, and other steppe people, which gave the legenf of arthur and the sword. But my question is were does it come from, did all the steppe people worship it? Sword worship probably started with the Cimmerians; and apparently a number of steppe cultures did likewise. The first mention of it is in Herodotus when speaking of the western Scythians, "In every district, there stands a temple of this god [his Ares or Mars]. It is a pile of brushwood, about three furlongs in breath and width, in height somewhat less, having a square platform upon the top... An antique [ceremonial] sword is placed on every such mound." This is a tri-part structure with the sword inclusive, what is known as the Axis Mundi. It shows up again in the Vulgate Merlin, "And there appeared in front of the church a stone, and no one knew what kind of stone it was. In the midst of this stone was set an anvil of iron a foot high, and through this anvil a sword had been thrust right into the stone." Here we have the Christian churchy version, but it's still the Axis Mundi. After Herodotus, we have Ammianus Marcellinus discussing the Alans, "No temple or sacred place is to be seen in their country, not even a hut thatched with straw can be discerned anywhere [the Alani lived in wagons], but after the manner of barbarians a naked sword is fixed to the ground and they reverently worship it as their god of war." To keep the sword upright, it was usually placed in a pile of sand or stones. Again we have the "Sword in the Stones"  And this is also another Axis Mundi: the earth/base, then the pile of f*g**ts/sand/stones, and finally the sword on top. This is not a simple ritual as Herodotus or Ammianus viewed it, but a more complicated picture of the three realms of humanity-- the ancestor (earth), the living (stones), and the deity above them (sword). aka, the Axis Mundi. All the cultures were related Cimmerians-Scythians, Saka-Massagetae-Alans, etc. until we reach Attila and his Huns. Today in Mongolia, the Axis Mundi is still used... but the Scythians-Saka probably passed it to the Mongols as the Alans did to the Huns. A little-known Alanic tribe-- the Taifali-- passed the ritual to the western Goths, who then re-named themselves the Tyrfingi, the "people of the sword." They called it Tyrfing. Tales of sword Tyrfing then show up in the Icelandic Old Edda in the Hervar Saga. She receives the sword from her father Argantyr (repeat of tyr), and becomes the new keeper-owner of the sword. In Layamon's Brute, Argantyr becomes Argante (Lady of the Lake). This can be traced back to the Gothic "arjan," meaning "to prepare." In turn, we go back to Alanic, to "Aryante" or "she who prepares the warriors." This is the high warrior priestess. And I would not be surprised if Dr. Davis-Kimball is correct in identifying the Golden Man of Issyk as the high warrior priestess. If that's the case, then Argantyr/Argante/Arjante/Aryante all describe a singular and well-remembered great female warrior who prepared young men and women in the martial arts. In the Arthurian legends, she lived in either a "underwater palace" or "in a rock." This could easily be Lake Issyk (which has a number of underwater palaces in the form of a drowned city) or "in" the kurgan where the mis-gendered "Golden Man" was buried, in a rock... a gigantic Mundus. And to complete the tale; the sword ceremony was also conducted atop the kurgans of the freshly deceased, where archaeologists still find an occassional sword. Hope this is helpful.  Alanus |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 26, 2010 11:38:13 GMT 3
Great info, thanks  |
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Post by Alanus on Apr 26, 2010 17:56:23 GMT 3
Great info, thanks You're welcome. I forgot to mention the "carriers" that brought the sword ritual to post-Roman Britain and northern France so it could end up in the Arthurian tales. They were two Roman cavalry units of steppe riders-- the Equites Taifali Seniors (they had a mirrored bear shield just like the facing bears on the Alanic Grail cups), and the Equites Taifali Juniors (who had the Asian "dragon and pearl" on their shield). Roman cavalrymen at this time, c. 396, were mostly Alans, Taifals, and Goths. Thus we have the Sword in the Stone, Lady of the Lake, and the Holy Grail... all of which came from the steppes. (Not introduced by the Iazyges, as claimed by Littleton & Malcor.)  |
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And this is also another Axis Mundi: the earth/base, then the pile of f*g**ts/sand/stones, and finally the sword on top. This is not a simple ritual as Herodotus or Ammianus viewed it, but a more complicated picture of the three realms of humanity-- the ancestor (earth), the living (stones), and the deity above them (sword). aka, the Axis Mundi.
