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Post by nomadi on Aug 14, 2009 19:18:02 GMT 3
what is Moghol ( Mughal)'s origin ?
Barulas? Kiyat ? or Qaraunas ?
Moghols living today Turkey ( camed Iran ) , Iran and Pakistan and Afghanistan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikudari
This link says Moghols are Qaraunas
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 14, 2009 22:55:09 GMT 3
the Negüderis were a "new" tribe formed at the time which were followers of the Mongol prince Negüder. i'd need to look up details in books.
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Post by kenmirzz on Aug 15, 2009 4:58:10 GMT 3
I think it's Barulas tribe. In Pakistan, some people have the surname Choghtai which is a corrupted version of the name Chaghatai. But I appreciate knowledgable people sharing their thought on this issue because it's quite hard to determine as that time, the Mughal was a result of intermingling of Persian, Turk, Mongol and Northern Indian.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 16, 2009 1:21:15 GMT 3
If you mean the Baburid dynasty, it was Barulas (paternal) and Kiyat-Borjigin (maternal).
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Post by Subu'atai on Aug 16, 2009 12:14:17 GMT 3
Heh reminds me of this funny Mughal girl I met last year...
"I am Mongolian!" she insists... with a heavy indian accent ;D It's cute, but no offense hard to take it seriously nowadays.
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Post by nomadi on Aug 16, 2009 17:17:18 GMT 3
Mughals too Mongol...
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Post by Subu'atai on Aug 17, 2009 0:50:55 GMT 3
I know bro, but reality speaks differently. Having the Mughal forum was pointless, they have the identity but none of the knowledge or culture or language. Just how it is anda. I'd rather not Mongolism follow in the footsteps of Turanism that futilely attempt to encompass every ethnic group within reach. We have merely; who we have left.
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Post by kenmirzz on Aug 17, 2009 4:08:37 GMT 3
Mr Subu'atai, yes, we have lost the culture and language. Personally, I want to mend this by having our future child to adopt Mongolian culture because my wife is a Khalkha Mongol. The Moghul Empire is a history of nearly 600 years ago and the intermingle between races during those days couldnt be prevented, similar case with the Hazara people. Humanity is but one family.  |
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Post by Subu'atai on Aug 17, 2009 10:18:54 GMT 3
You're a rare case my friend, I admire you.
However as you know I can't reform my personal impression of an entire people based on one or two people. I'm being dead honest here. And personally due to what I've learnt from my wife. It's best not to pin identities on people. The world does it all the time, but not me anymore.
Guess when your daughter carries 4 races in almost perfect fractional balance things get a little more complicated socially. Mughal, Indian, Pakistani, meh I don't care no more, all are human.
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Post by sarmat on Aug 18, 2009 19:19:15 GMT 3
Mr Subu'atai, yes, we have lost the culture and language. Personally, I want to mend this by having our future child to adopt Mongolian culture because my wife is a Khalkha Mongol. It seems that Indian Mughals are actually much closer to Turks than to Khalkha Mongols. |
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Post by Subu'atai on Aug 19, 2009 15:12:30 GMT 3
That's actually what I suggested to the Mughal girl last year, but she strongly insisted she's not Turk. So I don't know really, I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt in person.
That's just how history is; books can suggest one thing, people can suggest another. And even with everything together, you got the whole Turco-Mongol confusion as icing to a complicated piece of cake. That's why I always admired this forum.
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Post by Temüjin on Aug 19, 2009 19:59:04 GMT 3
i'm not sure what nomadi actually wanted to ask. the thing is Mongols already came to India long before the Mughals. the Negüderis he mentioned were part of a group of Mongols that joined the Delhi Sultanate during the 13th century due to quarrels within the Chaghatay Khanate. the Mughals Gurkanis/Timurids were already turkified to the degree that they considdered the Mongols as Barbarians.
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Post by nomadi on Aug 20, 2009 19:15:38 GMT 3
All Mughals are not Baburid or Temürid. Ilkhanatian Mongols not living now ? They too turkified. I only asked,i not have bad ideas
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Post by kenmirzz on Aug 21, 2009 12:15:45 GMT 3
As far as my family is concern, they prefer to identify themselves of being Turkic because of our grandfather blue eyes feature. However, I am an advocate of the Mongol origin side because Moghul is a mixed up races and in certain point in time, we do get mingled with Turk, Northern Indian and the Persian as well.
Still to say, we are not supposed to ignore the Mongol part. However, the influence of my Khalkha Mongol wife might be one of the factor as well. Human cannot escape the emotional attachment, aint it?
By the virtue of all these, humanity is but one family.
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Post by Subu'atai on Aug 21, 2009 16:15:23 GMT 3
The confusion of origins can be easily solved by individualist mentality and identity. I agree with you, we can't escape the emotional attachment, and I strongly love and admire my wife and her mentality. She maybe half Chinese and half Swedish, but she's herself first and foremost. Nowadays my Mongol identity is losing it's grip thanks to her influence. Slowly I'm starting to see myself as simply, ME. Funny too, at first I kept pushing her to agree that we would raise our child Mongol. But ever since Heaven's birth, things have changed. We have now agreed to raise her just like my wife. And if I am to be a good father, I'd best be an example It's hard though, to just let go of everything. |
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