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Kurds
Nov 8, 2011 23:13:05 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 8, 2011 23:13:05 GMT 3
I'm sorry if I am bumping/reviving a long dead thread, but I just couldn't help it. And for the record, what I'm about to say is completely measured by my own experiences with Kurdish people here in Finland. While the majority of the Turkish immigrants have the capacity to work and establish their own enterprises like restaurants, laundries etc., the Kurds only seem to be picking up a fight or a grudge wherever you see them and usually live on social welfare and many (not all, I'm not generalizing them nor do I want to) of their families must have at least two or three children. When you complain about it, they say it's racism and/or social discrimination. Bullnuts. True, most of them are like that. Not all of course, but most.
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Kurds
Mar 24, 2013 1:43:21 GMT 3
Post by ancalimon on Mar 24, 2013 1:43:21 GMT 3
I'm sorry if I am bumping/reviving a long dead thread, but I just couldn't help it. And for the record, what I'm about to say is completely measured by my own experiences with Kurdish people here in Finland. While the majority of the Turkish immigrants have the capacity to work and establish their own enterprises like restaurants, laundries etc., the Kurds only seem to be picking up a fight or a grudge wherever you see them and usually live on social welfare and many (not all, I'm not generalizing them nor do I want to) of their families must have at least two or three children. When you complain about it, they say it's racism and/or social discrimination. Bullnuts. True, most of them are like that. Not all of course, but most. Kurds are among the unlucky people that could be labeled as outgroups. They are a huge mixture of different ethnics consisting of Armenians, Persians, Arabs, Turks, Caucasians and many other ethnic groups. They had been living isolated in hard to reach geographies for a long time and as a result they gained sort of a different ethnic identity and nobody accepted them as their own people. While they don't really have an "original culture" of their own, they are like a melting pot of many different cultures. My own idea is that they were the major carriers of words between Persian and Turkic languages. In my opinion, the majority of Kurdish people in the world are closer to Persian culture; especially their language. They are also counted among Persian culture despite Iranians not generally liking them. Many different nations used them for their own ideologies Iran being the major nation that did it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1bW4mMxq8&t=3m0s
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Kurds
May 22, 2013 11:02:35 GMT 3
Post by Azadan Januspar on May 22, 2013 11:02:35 GMT 3
Yes Kurds are bearer of many ancient civilizations of the region mostly Iranian tribes especially Medians from these tribes the language has possibly evolved and also even older nations like Assyrians and Mitannis etc. their language has preserved many aspects of old Iranian lexical forms and sounds as well as elements from other local languages, yet their language is a good example of western Iranian family. And why the hell Iranians shouldn't like Kurds, they are more Iranian than many if you will. Iranian people don't usually discriminate by race and language. As of the video, I found it very irrelavent on topic though very interesting for the science of history and archeology in Gunaz TV and its respective dedication to it. I in turn also recommend viewers of this forum to check it out: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1bW4mMxq8&t=3m0sAs I am sure in the information era ignorance is a choice. So I wish that the respectful Gunaz TV would have also considered people interested in history mature enough that they might also go and read books about the keywords such as the neologisms like Northern Azerbaijan, Southern Azerbaijan, Persian chauvinism and minorities discrimination and mass murder in the past 100 years in the region. My thanks again and I wish I were the type that just would listen what people say and won't go verify it myself!
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Kurds
May 22, 2013 22:06:20 GMT 3
Post by ancalimon on May 22, 2013 22:06:20 GMT 3
As of the video, I found it very irrelavent on topic though very interesting for the science of history and archeology in Gunaz TV and its respective dedication to it. I in turn also recommend viewers of this forum to check it out: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf1bW4mMxq8&t=3m0sThe relevant part is that it's a national policy of Iran to use the Kurds against what they call the "Yellow Danger"...
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Kurds
May 23, 2013 4:03:31 GMT 3
Post by Azadan Januspar on May 23, 2013 4:03:31 GMT 3
"Yellow danger"?! Man this is super ridiculuous! Please dont trust what I am saying and go find out for yourself. I don't want to disappoint you cause You seem to at least use internet to learn history if not more, but anyways again go find out for yourself.
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Kurds
Jun 1, 2014 12:09:57 GMT 3
Post by redar1 on Jun 1, 2014 12:09:57 GMT 3
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Kurds
Feb 11, 2015 23:58:12 GMT 3
Post by berndybirdy on Feb 11, 2015 23:58:12 GMT 3
The kurds haven't gor a history or culture
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Kurds
Feb 13, 2015 18:50:15 GMT 3
Post by shouri on Feb 13, 2015 18:50:15 GMT 3
Let's define the word 'nationality/nation' first(wikipedia is a good reference at this point check it out sometime) first, there are two key elements when defining the concept of nation first one is ethnicity and the second is culture. So without the culture and genetical heritage of a certain nation claiming you are from that nation would be nonsensical. Kurds were living on mountains bordering iran and iraq for millenias, even before they had a name they were there probably their history there goes back to Akkadian conquest. My reason for claiming this is simple genetical heritage(which is now long lost due to hybridization with different ethnicities, though still they do resemble their ancestors i think[it's not like i've seen akkadians or meds though so don't take my imagination too seriosuly]) and cultural heritage they had(which is now lost due to changes in lifestyle religion etc). Though they weren't called a nation, rather they were called 'hill people', Sassanids and Romans defined them as lawless, hardy people living on hills, herding sheep, raiding nearby caravans when they can... Though when we consider that mesopotamia's geoploitacal importance in antiquity it's no wonder that none of the ethnicities there remained pure, however most conquerors didn't really sent settlers to mesopotamia in masses, so we can assume genetical traits of Mesopotamia remained purer when compared to Anatolia. Both Assyrians and Akkadians had toned skins (as far as i know) unlike Sumerians, and Babylonians were paler than Assyrians but darker than Sumerians. I don't count Alexander's conquest, Seleucids or Roman conquest as a factor because they didn't move enough people to change the genetical pool into mesopotamia. Arabs are another issue though, the Saba Tribe of Eastern Africa the ancestors of todays Arabs were somewhat dark skinned either, and after the rise of Islam Arabs sporadically expanded to whole middle east. I didn't mention medians because they are obviously one ot he sources of todays Kurds when you look at it from a historical point of view. So my theory is that Kurdish genetical background was either assimilated by medians/akkadians/assyrians/arabs or they are an offshoot of one of these nations unless they are an offshoot of arabs though i'll have to conclude that Kurds are no more, due to 2 main points, first due to population boom of arabic and berberic people in the proximity, whole central, southern middle east is now more arab than anything else(eastern being more persian, western being more phoenician and hebrew) they can not possibly retain their ancestors' genetic traits, 2nd is much simpler, they converted to Islam Kurds are originally warlike people and shephards, not farmers like previous mesopotamians, though people who are claiming to be Kurds are more farmers than shephards and hillmen, they occupy the plains not hills, while this might seem natural and insignificant, this resulted in other middle easterns to corrupt/assimilate their culture.
Shortly my point is no nation can claim to be the same nation they are a millenia ago if they lost both their genetical and cultural heritage, this includes Turks, Kurds and all other people as well, Anatolians of Turkey call themselves Turks, however they left the steppes, settled down, forsake their ancestors' religion and their old ways and most of them doesn't even carry Turkish blood. So people mistakenly think Turks in Turkey are the same Turks in steppes, but they aren't. What would Huns think of todays Turks if they met do you think? 80 million people more than half of it claiming to be the descendants of Huns yet not even a percent of it has the same traditions, horsemanship is almost nonexistant.
I am a Turkish citizen myself, genetically speaking, my father's father side moved to Laodicea(i don't know what that place was called in that time though) in 17th century from northern Egypt(according to oral tradition our grandfathers were always mounted soldiers for the feudal lord of Egypt while it was under Ottoman rule), my fathers mother side descended from Eastern China and also found their way to Laodicea by the end of 18th century, my mothers mother side descended from Macedonia to Cilicia in late 19th century, my mothers father side descended from nothern Caucasia and settled to Cotyaeum prbably around 16th century and most of our family weren't Muslims or more like they weren't religious at all(except for mother's mother side who are Muslims which is weird considering their ethnicity), i consider myself philosophically closer to Chinese rather than Middle Easterners. Anyway unlike most Turkish people here in Turkey, i do carry steppe blood, and possibly more than quarter of my background perhaps it might even be half of it, but i still don't consider my self a Hun or one of Steppe People. Chinese usually mention Turks as people of steppes in their ancient texts rather than naming them, many of these steppe peoples were actually enlisted in Chinese Army, they rather than thinking of us another nation thought of us as a pain in their ass, but still it was usually considered as an internal matter of the Unified China. Steppe people were much like Manchurians or Hill people of Southereastern China considered Chinese. In this time and age claiming to be a descendant of a certain historical nation in our geography sounds weird to me, In anatolia there are no more Turks, Kurds or Armenians, society just brainwash it's members, we are all in the pot called Anatolia and within it is the soup called Turkey, i always regret our hero Atatürk's choice of name for a country, i do recognize the need to lift the spirits of people during wartime by using ideologies, and the sociological importance of European nationalism in those times but stil... I somehow feel Anatolian Republic would be much more fitting. Sorry for departing from the topic btw :S
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