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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 6, 2009 20:29:49 GMT 3
Here is the new thread about Thracians, as our dear member Asparuh demanded
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 7, 2009 3:57:42 GMT 3
Hey Ihsan,you are the best man ! Thank you ! ) ILIYAN.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 7, 2009 4:58:57 GMT 3
No problem man Waiting for your contributions
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 7, 2009 21:10:14 GMT 3
Ok,Here we are. Let me finally begin this topic about the Thracians.
1.Origin.
The origins of the Thracians remain obscure, in absence of written historical records. Evidence of proto-Thracians in the prehistoric period depends on remains of material culture. Proto-Thracian tombs can be found dating back to 3000 BC when what can be termed as 'proto-Thracian' culture began to form. It is generally proposed that a proto-Thracian people developed from a mixture of indigenous peoples and Indo-Europeans from the time of Proto-Indo-European expansion in the Early Bronze Age when the latter, around 1500 BC, conquered the indigenous peoples.
Thracian Roman era "heros" (Sabazius) stele. The rider god was holding a lance and rides towards an altar with a snake wound around a tree. The flowing mantle is a permanent attribute of the Thracian rider god over several centuries.Modern linguistics classifies the Thracians as an Indo-European people who spoke a satemized language, which links them linguistically to Albanians, Slavs, Balts and Indo-Iranian people. It is however disputed whether the satem languages actually descend from a later than PIE ancestor (thus forming a true satem subgroup of Indo-European) or whether satemization was caused by areal contact or parallel evolution. Links to the Greek branch (a centum language) of the Indo-European language family are also being investigated.
The first historical record about the Thracians is found in the Iliad, where they appear as allies of the Trojans, hailing from Thrace. The ethnonym Thracian comes from Ancient Greek Èñᾷî (pl. Èñᾷêåò) or Èñᾴêéïò (Ionic Èñçßêéïò), and the toponym Thrace comes from Èñᾴêç (Ion. Èñῄêç). According to Romanian linguist and Thracologist Sorin Mihai Olteanu, the ethnonym Thraikios (Èñᾴêéïò: ancient Greek for Thracian) appears to have the same etymology as Graikos (Ãñáéêüò.
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 7, 2009 21:12:13 GMT 3
2.Classical period.
By the 5th century BC, the Thracian presence was pervasive enough to have made Herodotus (book 5) call them the second-most numerous people in the part of the world known by him (after the Indians), and potentially the most powerful, if not for their disunity. The Thracians in classical times were broken up into a large number of groups and tribes, though a number of powerful Thracian states were organized, such as the Odrysian kingdom of Thrace and the Dacian kingdom of Burebista. A type of soldier of this period called the Peltast probably originated in Thrace.
In that period, contacts between the Thracians and Classical Greece intensified which led to strengthening Greek influences in Thracian society, culture and handcrafts. Because their language had no written tradition, in some regions the Thracian aristocracy and administration adopted Classical Greek for an official language and Thracian merchants utilised it as a 'lingua franca' in their contacts with other tribes and peoples. As a result a level of Hellenization was observed in the following centuries which was more deeply imposed by the Macedonian conquests over the Thracian territory in 3rd century BC.
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 7, 2009 21:14:52 GMT 3
3.Ethnicity and language.
The ancient languages of these people had already gone extinct and their cultural influence was highly reduced due to the repeated barbaric invasions of the Balkans by Celts, Huns, Goths, and Sarmatians, accompanied by persistent Hellenization, Romanisation and later Slavicisation. The ethnic contribution of the Thracian and Daco-Getic population, who had lived on the territory of modern Romania and Bulgaria has been long debated among the scientists during the 20th century. Some recent genetic studies suggest that these peoples have indeed made a significant contribution to the genes of these nations.[9]
After they were subjugated by the Macedonian king Alexander the Great and consecutively by the Roman Empire, most of the Thracians eventually became Hellenised (in the province of Thrace)[10] or Romanised (in Moesia, Dacia, etc.). The Romanised tribes of the this region later became the ethnic substratum of the Vlach people (that first appeared in historical documents in the 10th century) who evolved into modern Romanians.
In the 6th century, some Thraco-Roman and Thraco-Hellenic descendants of Thracian tribes south of the Danube river made contacts with the invading Slavs and were later Slavicised. Thus they became one of the main ethnic elements in the consolidation of the Bulgarian nation in 8-9th century. Linguistic evidence about this is the presence of Thracian and direct Latin loanwords in Old Bulgarian and modern Bulgarian language.
Some scholars have proposed that present-day Albanians may be descendants of Thracian tribes who maintained their language (see also: Albanian Language).
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 7, 2009 21:15:43 GMT 3
Thanks for the info The Thracians also fought numerious wars against their Scythian neighbors.
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 7, 2009 21:42:43 GMT 3
Here are some images of Thracian warriors: This is it for now. I'll keep updating soon. Bye !
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 7, 2009 21:43:33 GMT 3
Yes,and against the Roman empire too.
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Post by arnewise12 on Mar 8, 2009 21:20:06 GMT 3
I read in herdotous books that the tharcians were redhair.
Arent they of unknown origin, how can they be indo-european
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Post by sarmat on Mar 8, 2009 22:12:47 GMT 3
I read in herdotous books that the tharcians were redhair. Arent they of unknown origin, how can they be indo-european Herodotus didn't write such things and it's not contested that Thracian language was Indo-European the problem is to which subgroup of IE languages it actually belonged.
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Post by Asparuh on Mar 12, 2009 2:00:13 GMT 3
Yes,The Thracian were mostly redhaired.Tall,atletic and with light eyes as i readed also in a description about them. One of the first sources which mentioned about the Thracians is the Homer masterpiece ILIYADA .In the war of Troy the Thracians were on the side of the Troyans. There comes a quiestion ? What people were actually the Trojans ? Persians ? Or Sea people like the Fenicians ? Nobody really knows for shure. Some say they were related to the Hititas? They believed in the sun god of Apollo. And also the Trojan warriors were excelent horse riders and where their shields in their back as steppe peoples do.Had a long spear and a helmet with horse tail in it.So isn't that a steppe influence ? We are talking about 3000 years ago.1000 B.C. What were actually The Trojans ? If you can please answer that. The fortress of Troy was were know Kannakalle on Turkey is. So,does that related the Trojans as an ancient Asian people or Persian people.Maybe Asyrian too. I will be happy if somedy help me to find out. Here is a photo of Hector from the movie TROY. Bye Iliyan.
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Post by sarmat on Mar 12, 2009 15:57:48 GMT 3
There comes a quiestion ? What people were actually the Trojans ? Persians ? Or Sea people like the Fenicians ? Nobody really knows for shure. Some say they were related to the Hititas? They most likely were of the same stock as Achean Greeks. They believed in the sun god of Apollo. And also the Trojan warriors were excelent horse riders and where their shields in their back as steppe peoples do.Had a long spear and a helmet with horse tail in it.So isn't that a steppe influence ? I'm afraid, dear Asparuh, you take this description from the movie Troy, while in fact we didn't really now at all how Trojan warriors looked like. We are talking about 3000 years ago.1000 B.C. What were actually The Trojans ? If you can please answer that. The fortress of Troy was were know Kannakalle on Turkey is. So,does that related the Trojans as an ancient Asian people or Persian people.Maybe Asyrian too. I will be happy if somedy help me to find out. As I said, they were most likely related to Acheans, Phrygians, Lidians and other indigenous Anatolian people and also might have some Caucasian element in them (in the meaning of Caucasian language linguistic group). They might also have some relation to the steppe people, particularly Cimmerians (Herodotus writed that Cimmerians resettled to Anatolia) and also Thracians since it is believed that Assuwa confederation (a prototype of Troy by some historians) did control some lands in the realm which later became known as Thrace. It's believed that they in fact controled the trade roots to the Black Sea and that was the main reason of war with the Achean confederation.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 12, 2009 20:01:02 GMT 3
There was a short Luwi inscription discovered at Troia, from the period of the famous Trojan War. The Luwi were an IE people related with the Hittites.
We know that the Cimmerians came and settled in Anatolia, but to my knowledge, they did not go as far west as Çanakkale.
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Post by sarmat on Mar 12, 2009 21:34:14 GMT 3
Aren't Luwians ancestors of Lydians?
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