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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 20, 2004 18:26:48 GMT 3
(Originially posted by karakhan at September 19, 2004)---- We know the Mongols generally inhabit an area between Inner Mongolia and Lake Baikal, and the farthest east any Mongol expand was first with the Khitan to modern day Liaoning, and then with the Yuan Dynasty when it reach the pacific ocean. what about any Turkic tribes or countries? The Sakha (Yakuts) went the farthest north and it is currently the most eastern Turks. the Old Tatars (during Jengiz Khan era) was as far east as part of Heilongjiang in modern China.. but any got farther east? all the way to the pacific ocean? ---------------- (Originially posted by me at September 19, 2004)---- A nice question... I don't know for the Xiongnu, but the Tujue (Türük/Gök Türk) Empire ruled over parts of Southwestern Manchuria through vassals like the Khitans and Tataby, though they probably didn't rule deeper parts of the region, like the Amur Valley. They reached the Chinese coasts at Hebei several times though. ---------------- (Originially posted by ColdHeat at September 19, 2004)---- What about the Hun Empire? It is considered to be the first ever Turkic empire and as far as I know its based somewhere around china... ---------------- (Originially posted by warhead at September 20, 2004)---- The xiongnu like the Tu jue only expanded into western manchuria, the limit of Xiongnu is the dong hu, which became the xienbei and wu huan, thus no turkic empire has extended to eastern manchuria, in fact few large mongolian empires ever has, with the exception of the mongol and Xianbei empire of tang shi huai which occupied the fuyu in eastern manchuria. ---------------- (Originially posted by me at September 20, 2004)---- Well, Xiongnu (Hsiung-nu) = Asiatic Huns (as called in Turkey) 
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Apr 17, 2006 4:06:29 GMT 3
what about the red indians?
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Post by Bor Chono on Apr 17, 2006 16:13:42 GMT 3
I don`t know how Turks defeated Mongols. Maybe they had good Armor & Sword. I mean steel was better. I know that some Mongols, we call them DEED MONGOLS(=High Mongols) were in the north of India. I heard that Persians+Tibetans(=TUVD means IN TNE CENTRE ppl)+Turks defeated these Khor ppl(=Tibets call us KHOR).
I know that TURKs were called SAVAGES(=sorry! just a truth) because they used to kill all men and took just Women. It was hard to face such Brutal(=no mercyful) enemy.
In Mongolian steppes there were MONGOLS & HAMNIGAN ppl. To save their lives Mongols united with Turks, also took some traditions worshiped to same god TENGRI. But Hamnigans wanted to fight to end. Mongols+Turks almost destroyed(+united) them but few children escaped and started new life.
Legends say that they had poor culture because there were no elders to teach. When they became many they invaded china & took chinese culture.
These Hamnigans called ZURCHINs(=Zuruuduud means stupid+ppl who do not listed and do what they want= stupid child like) ;D
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Apr 17, 2006 20:27:21 GMT 3
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 21, 2006 23:19:27 GMT 3
I read this somewere that cengis han or genghis khan was an turkified mongol and amir timir or timur lenk a monglofied turk. Sounds weired right?
btw hat about xiongnu there huns right so I don't know if that counts as turkic
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Jul 22, 2006 2:09:51 GMT 3
I read this somewere that cengis han or genghis khan was an turkified mongol and amir timir or timur lenk a monglofied turk. Sounds weired right? Nihal Atsiz says this, as a pan-Turkist... I also think like this but we don't have proof so we MUST accept that the greatest khan the world has ever seen was a Mongol (brother of us...). I think that we can't say that Mongols and Turks were seperated in this age of history. We were close... And your other question... Yes Huns of Asia are Turkic... |
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 22, 2006 16:28:05 GMT 3
the xiongnu controleld all of manchurai right. all the north-east what about korea was that also in there terrotories
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Post by Bor Chono on Jul 23, 2006 7:03:45 GMT 3
the xiongnu controleld all of manchurai right. all the north-east what about korea was that also in there terrotories Maybe!... Koreans always had weak armies(I`m not speaking about Korean Navy! they feel more better on water, so I`m just speaking about combat land units) (Ofcourse now they have better weapons.) I mean they were not a good warriors, they were more diplomats. They just give girls & gift to save their skin. Compare to chinese (maybe) they are more agressive -they can easly turn into rebelions. Mongols call Koreans "Solongos"(=Rainbow ppl) -It is because they wore rainbow colored edge cloths And "Guulin ulus"(=Brass state) -It is because they produced very good brass(metal!) products. Actually there was need to conquer them for nomads -too wet place. However, if it is easy U can burn some of their border cities. It is better to attack Great wall or chinese cities -it was like way of life, or nomads knew these invading roads for long time. Korean landscape was mistery -U need spys. I heard that koreans had very good inner police like (anti-foreign spy) units. So Korea wasn`t fully conquered intead it always been a tribute state -I think only Mongols managed to conquer them fully. One thing is they surely called nomads as "Barbarians" >:(or "Savages" & they always used chinese help against foreign threat(=Japan & Nomads).  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 23, 2006 17:43:10 GMT 3
Chinggis Khan was a true Mongol. Ämîr Tämür was a Turkified Mongol.
I don't know whether they ruled entire Manchuria or not; but I know that they didn't rule Korea (Old Choson) at any time.
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Post by tangriberdi on Jun 3, 2007 18:36:01 GMT 3
I know that Chingis Khan was a Turkified Mongol. But Emir Timur was not. He was a Barlas Turk. He just claimed to be chingizid because this was prestigious in that time. But remember that he always uttered he is a Turk, and he was proud of it.
He says :In Uzbek:
Biz kim - mulki Turon, amiri Turkistonmiz!
Biz kim - millatlarning eng ulugi, Turkning bosh bo'g'inimiz!
In Turkish:
Biz ki mülki Turan, emiri Türkistanýz
Biz ki Milletlerin en ulusu, Türkün baþ buðuyuz.
That is, we are the possessor of Turan, the king of Turkistan, we are the leader of Turks who are the most superiror of all nations.
And considering these facts, to call Amir timur as a turkifiedmongol is just unfair and is just a western propaganda. Because you know West dislike anything Turk, so they distort history.
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Post by Atabeg on Jun 3, 2007 18:40:57 GMT 3
hey so why did we forget about the modern sari uigurs they live pretty far east don't they.
when did they get there and how?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2007 19:08:35 GMT 3
I know that Chingis Khan was a Turkified Mongol. But Emir Timur was not. He was a Barlas Turk. He just claimed to be chingizid because this was prestigious in that time. But remember that he always uttered he is a Turk, and he was proud of it. He says :In Uzbek: Biz kim - mulki Turon, amiri Turkistonmiz! Biz kim - millatlarning eng ulugi, Turkning bosh bo'g'inimiz! In Turkish: Biz ki mülki Turan, emiri Türkistanýz Biz ki Milletlerin en ulusu, Türkün ba?buðuyuz. That is, we are the possessor of Turan, the king of Turkistan, we are the leader of Turks who are the most superiror of all nations. And considering these facts, to call Amir timur as a turkifiedmongol is just unfair and is just a western propaganda. Because you know West dislike anything Turk, so they distort history. You're 100% right, except for Cengiz Han being a Turkified Mongol, he was Mongol and that's it, not Turkified. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2007 19:10:30 GMT 3
I think the Yakut Turks are the most eastern, they're definetly the most northern, you can't go anymore noth than them but I think at the same time they were the most eastern. If you want to look at the Turks more southern than the Siberian Turks than the Sari Uygurs (Yellow Uygurs) and Salar Turks are definetly the most eastern. But I think the Yakut Turks are even more eastern than them.
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Post by tangriberdi on Jun 3, 2007 19:45:16 GMT 3
I know that Chingis Khan was a Turkified Mongol. But Emir Timur was not. He was a Barlas Turk. He just claimed to be chingizid because this was prestigious in that time. But remember that he always uttered he is a Turk, and he was proud of it. He says :In Uzbek: Biz kim - mulki Turon, amiri Turkistonmiz! Biz kim - millatlarning eng ulugi, Turkning bosh bo'g'inimiz! In Turkish: Biz ki mülki Turan, emiri Türkistanýz Biz ki Milletlerin en ulusu, Türkün ba?buðuyuz. That is, we are the possessor of Turan, the king of Turkistan, we are the leader of Turks who are the most superiror of all nations. And considering these facts, to call Amir timur as a turkifiedmongol is just unfair and is just a western propaganda. Because you know West dislike anything Turk, so they distort history. You're 100% right, except for Cengiz Han being a Turkified Mongol, he was Mongol and that's it, not Turkified. I was confused , I would write I did know Chingis was Mongol and Amir Timur was not. So for correction, thank you very much. |
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 3, 2007 22:38:29 GMT 3
but Barulas is a Mongol tribe, there is no reason to make him more Turkic, it doesn't matter.
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