Books About Central Asian Turkic History

[arnewise12]

Hi everyone, how are u doing is everything fine, I was hoping to get help with a serious of question regarding central asian history,

1. Were can I find the books about the old asian hunnic empire, the huns and there for fathers in english,

2. Were can I find good books about the the origin of medieval central turkic tribes and people,

3. were can I find a good bookabout the oghuz turks and their succesor the seljuks and the ottomans, mostly interested in the seljuks, thought the ottomans are interesteing to but their history is to big at the moment to deal with,anyhow, I hope someone can give me an answer

I found a book from the author John freely called storm on a horse back, is thisbook worth buying, I cant buy from amazon, so I have to use a local dealership instead,

thanks in advance

I dont feel that I can contribute to the site since I have limited knowledge about central asian history , but sure I want to know more

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Greetings Arnewise12, welcome aboard

1. Were can I find the books about the old asian hunnic empire, the huns and there for fathers in english,

The best book I saw in English about European Huns was Otto Maenchen-Helfen's The World of the Huns. Most of what I read about Asian Huns are in Turkish, I'm not sure if that can help (I can give a short list if you want).

I reached Maenchen-Helfen's book from our university library.

2. Were can I find good books about the the origin of medieval central turkic tribes and people,

Peter Golden's An Introduction to the History of the Turkic Peoples is very good for beginners. I think it would be easy to find the book, especially in university libraries (it's also translated to Turkish and can be found in most of the major bookstores in Turkey).

3. were can I find a good bookabout the oghuz turks and their succesor the seljuks and the ottomans, mostly interested in the seljuks, thought the ottomans are interesteing to but their history is to big at the moment to deal with,anyhow, I hope someone can give me an answer

Not much in English, but plenty in Turkish

I found a book from the author John freely called storm on a horse back, is thisbook worth buying, I cant buy from amazon, so I have to use a local dealership instead,

Hmm, didn't read it

[Temüjin]

i'll get the book by Freely as soon as they cut the price a little...

[arnewise12]

I have checked out the author peter golden, but all his books are very expensive, I checked the price , its about 200 dollars for one of his books , thought it was not the one u recommended

this book called Nomads and Their Neighbours in the Russian Steppe costs 180 dollars, really expensive

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Yes that's a big problem with online book shopping, sometimes I find the books I want but they can be very expensive, that's why I don't buy books online unless it's extremely necessary

[keaganjoelbrewer]

There is very little written about the Seljuks in English, and a lot of what has been done is pretty trashy (don't buy the Tamara Talbot Rice book... it's very poor in my opinion).

There is a book I would like to recommend on the Seljuks. It is an English translation of a work by the Turkish scholar Ibrahim Kasefoğlu, called A History of the Seljuks translated by Leiser. The first section is a translation of a long article on the Seljuks written by Kasefoğlu for an encyclopaedia. The second part of the book goes into this big fight that Kasefoğlu and another Turkish scholar (can't remember his name) had about this article. The second scholar claimed that Kasefoğlu ripped off his article... it's all very amusing. So get it for the Kasefoğlu article, and then read the rest for a bit of a giggle at some bitter old academics.

I would like to add to Ihsan's suggestion of Otto Maenchen-Helfen's book on the Huns that of E.A. Thompson, which is similar to the Maenchen-Helfen but also very good (and nicely written too).

If you want to get into Central Asian history but have very little knowledge of the subject, you have to be careful which book you choose. Some people put waaay to much detail into their stuff for beginners and it will confuse the hell out of you and scare you away. I am thinking right now of books like Turkestan Down to the Mongol Invasions by Barthold. It is a brilliant book and a great reference, but do not go there if you are new to the field. There are a bunch of books which are more appropriate if you don't know much yet. The most commonly recommended of these is Grousset, The Empire of the Steppes, but I haven't read this one yet and can't really tell you if it's good or not. I know Ihsan thinks it's outdated.. hehe.

A quick search of amazon.com brought up a book that seems to be exactly what you're looking for for the Turkish stuff: Carter Vaughn Findley, The Turks in World History. It's only $20 too. Has anyone read this book or heard anything about it?

And yeah, books in Central Asian history (especially the obscure academic ones) are usually either out of print or ridiculously expensive. Let's face it, it's not the most popular field. Get used to having to fork out lots of dough if you get into it properly.

[Azadan Januspar]

Yes the Barthold's work is a good starter. there's another book about the Ghaznavid Turks called "The Ghaznavids" by Bosworth.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

There is very little written about the Seljuks in English, and a lot of what has been done is pretty trashy (don't buy the Tamara Talbot Rice book... it's very poor in my opinion).

I didn't know she had a book about the Seljuks ;D

There is a book I would like to recommend on the Seljuks. It is an English translation of a work by the Turkish scholar Ibrahim Kasefoğlu, called A History of the Seljuks translated by Leiser. The first section is a translation of a long article on the Seljuks written by Kasefoğlu for an encyclopaedia. The second part of the book goes into this big fight that Kasefoğlu and another Turkish scholar (can't remember his name) had about this article. The second scholar claimed that Kasefoğlu ripped off his article... it's all very amusing. So get it for the Kasefoğlu article, and then read the rest for a bit of a giggle at some bitter old academics.

LOOL you know that story? You surprise me eveyday ;D ;D ;D That big fight between İbrahim Kafesoğlu and Osman Turan is very famous among the scholars in Turkey, never thought it was heard overseas ;D ;D The fight broke after İbrahim Kafesoğlu wrote the Seljuk Empire article in the Turkish edition of the Encyclopedia of Islam; as Keagan pointed out, Turan later accused Kafesoğlu for theft ;D

İbrahim Kafesoğlu also had a scholarly debate with Ahmed Zeki Velidî Togan about the ethnicity and origins of Činggis Qan (Genghis Khan). I have read Togan's theory in detail but I couldn't reach Kafesoğlu's article, so I don't know how exactly the debate was (yes, I should be ashamed of myself)

If you want to get into Central Asian history but have very little knowledge of the subject, you have to be careful which book you choose. Some people put waaay to much detail into their stuff for beginners and it will confuse the hell out of you and scare you away. I am thinking right now of books like Turkestan Down to the Mongol Invasions by Barthold. It is a brilliant book and a great reference, but do not go there if you are new to the field.

Yes indeed, Wilhelm Barthold's Turkestan Down to the Mongol Invasions is ment to be an introductory book but it has too many details that definitially would be heavy for very beginners. One should read Barthold's book only after he/she establishes some basis in this field, especially in the Islamic period of Turkistan.

The most commonly recommended of these is Grousset, The Empire of the Steppes, but I haven't read this one yet and can't really tell you if it's good or not. I know Ihsan thinks it's outdated.. hehe.

Well this book is also good for beginners, but it is partially outdated. However, in general, I can still advise this book.

Similar to that, Jean-Paul Roux has three introductory books in this field: Central Asia - History and Culture, History of the Mongol Empire and History of the Turks.

A quick search of amazon.com brought up a book that seems to be exactly what you're looking for for the Turkish stuff: Carter Vaughn Findley, The Turks in World History. It's only $20 too. Has anyone read this book or heard anything about it?

I have the Turkish translation of this book, which I read two years ago Well the recent history parts of it is ok because the guy is an expert on that field, but he has some totally false remark regarding ancient and early medieval period. His biggest mistake is that he says there were no Turks before the 6th century, which is a big blow to the book's credibility.

And yeah, books in Central Asian history (especially the obscure academic ones) are usually either out of print or ridiculously expensive. Let's face it, it's not the most popular field. Get used to having to fork out lots of dough if you get into it properly.

Yes, especially in English. However, there are many books in Turkish, but you have to know the language. The best and most-known introductory books written in Turkish are İbrahim Kafesoğlu's Türk Millî Kültürü ("Turkish National Culture") and Ahmed Zeki Velidî Togan's Umumî Türk Tarihine Giriş ("Introduction to Turkish General History"); Togan also has a book similar to Barthold's book titled Türkili (Türkistan) Tarihi ("History of Turkistan"), and even though I have the book, I didn't have time to read it yet. If you would ask me to make one choose among Kafesoğlu's TMK and Togan's UMTG, I would choose Kafesoğlu's book, because:

1) Kafesoğlu describes Turkic history and culture until the 11th century in a summary way but he gives a very nice collection of necessary info; I always advise this book to my Turkish friends who want to start reading about pre-Islamic Turkic history. No wonder why it was our course book for Ancient Turkic History courses during our Bachelor years ;D

2) Even though Togan's book is an immense and admirable work, he begins with too many dubious theories about pre-Hunnic CA history and stunns you. After you finish reading it, you come across the chapter about Hunnic and pre-13th century Turkic history, but he doesn't go in detail (understandable for an introductory work). However, when you come across the Mongol and Post-Mongol periods, he immediately starts giving you too many detailed infos and makes you suffocate among an info ocean ;D Plus, his "Turkic-origins of Činggis Qan" theory is way out of line, and that theory has caused him to develop a very wrong fantasy-like theory about Turkic History in general

3) Compared to Togan's book, Kafesoğlu's book is way more balanced and much easier to read. Kafesoğlu just doesn't suffocate you with unnecessary info. I think, in general, Kafesoğlu's book can be compared with Peter Golden's introductory book (one difference is that Kafesoğlu stops in the 10th-11th centuries but Golden's book comes until the 20th century). However, one should be careful when reading Kafesoğlu's book's chapter regarding the religion of the Ancient Turks, because he was a Turkish-Islamist conservative nationalist, which made him try re-shaping Old Turkic Religion in a way that it would look somewhat similar to Islam Skip that chapter, read Jean-Paul Roux's Old Religion of Turks and Mongols instead of that, and Kafesoğlu's book will be much better for you ;D

If you would like to read about Old Turkic culture and mythology, the works of Bahaeddin Ögel and Emel Esin would be enough

[ALTAR]

I prefer Zeki Velidi Togans works than Kafesoğlu.

Kafesoğlu was so Islamist-minded and conservative person. He also represented his personal and ideologic views on his works. But he was an important historian in Turkey and We shpuld never deny his important works and servies in Turk History Writing. Kök Tengri bless his soul and forgive his mistakes

Zeki Velidi Togan is a native of the region and ruling the history of Central Asia and İdil Ural with details. He can classify the old Central Asian, Persian, Arabian resources together. Because his language skills were better than Kafesoğlu.

Thats my point of view.

And you should try Leon Cahuns "Introduction to Asian History: Turks and Mongols"

[Temüjin]

Oct 28, 2008 15:00:08 GMT 3 Azadan Januspar said:

there's another book about the Ghaznavid Turks called "The Ghaznavids" by Bosworth.

i'm interested in Ghaznavids, or rather Mahmud of Ghazni. is the book any good, or are there any other books?

[arnewise12]

I found a book that Ibrahim Kafesoghlu wrote , but I am not sure if it is in english, can u please help me out and check it for me

www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=ibrahim+kafesoglu it the top of the screen called A History of the Seljuks: Ibrahim Kafesoglu's Interpretation and the Resulting Controversy

is this worth spending your money on

[arnewise12]

I just order the world of huns ,and it was very cheap, only 5 dollars, hehe, there was even chepar but u know what the say about cheap things

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

I prefer Zeki Velidi Togans works than Kafesoğlu.

Kafesoğlu was so Islamist-minded and conservative person. He also represents his personal and ideologic views on his works. But he was an important historian in Turkey and We shpuld never deny his important works and servies in Turk History Writing. Kök Tengri bless his soul and forgive his mistakes

Zeki Velidi Togan is a native of the region and ruling the history of Central Asia and İdil Ural with details. He can calssify the old Central Asian, Persian, Arabian resources together. Because his language skills were better than Kafesoğlu.

Thats my point of view.

Yes, Kafesoğlu's Islamism caused him to distort the chapter he wrote about Old Turkic Religion. And unfortunately, his view is now the most popular in Turkey Whereas Roux's views should have been, because they are more accurate, plus free from ideological concerns.

However, Togan wasn't innocent either, he also distorted history, actually much more than Kafesoğlu did. Both were distorters up to an extent ;D As you remember my dear Yabghu, during our long discussions, we always both agree that we should approach both scholars in a cautious way ;D

And you should try Leon Cahuns "Introduction to Asian History: Turks and Mongols"

That's a very important book too. Did you know that Ziya Gökalp became a Pan-Turkist after reading this book? ;D

i'm interested in Ghaznavids, or rather Mahmud of Ghazni. is the book any good, or are there any other books?

Definitally, because he is the leading English-speaker expert in Ghaznavid history.

I found a book that Ibrahim Kafesoghlu wrote , but I am not sure if it is in english, can u please help me out and check it for me

www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=....rahim+kafesoglu it the top of the screen called A History of the Seljuks: Ibrahim Kafesoglu's Interpretation and the Resulting Controversy

is this worth spending your money on

Yes, that's the one Keagan was talking about It's the English translation of Kafesoğlu's book. You should buy it.

I just order the world of huns ,and it was very cheap, only 5 dollars, hehe, there was even chepar but u know what the say about cheap things

What? 5 dollars?! OMG You're one lucky dude ;D ;D

[Azadan Januspar]

Oct 28, 2008 20:28:26 GMT 3 Temüjin said:

Oct 28, 2008 15:00:08 GMT 3 Azadan Januspar said:

there's another book about the Ghaznavid Turks called "The Ghaznavids" by Bosworth.

i'm interested in Ghaznavids, or rather Mahmud of Ghazni. is the book any good, or are there any other books?

There are chapters focusing on the late Ghaznavids giving essential details of the early Seljuks.

[ALTAR]

Oct 29, 2008 1:06:32 GMT 3 H. İhsan Erkoç said:

Yes, Kafesoğlu's Islamism caused him to distort the chapter he wrote about Old Turkic Religion. And unfortunately, his view is now the most popular in Turkey Whereas Roux's views should have been, because they are more accurate, plus free from ideological concerns.

However, Togan wasn't innocent either, he also distorted history, actually much more than Kafesoğlu did. Both were distorters up to an extent ;D As you remember my dear Yabghu, during our long discussions, we always both agree that we should approach both scholars in a cautious way ;D

That's a very important book too. Did you know that Ziya Gökalp became a Pan-Turkist after reading this book? ;D

I think if you had compared both of them. Togan is more innocent than Kafesoglu. ;D He only wrote Genghis Khan was descended from Shato Turks ;D. It could be too. It was only a thesis and he had a very strong Qipchaq sentiment with Ultra-Bashkir Nationalism ;D . However, nobody can deny his valueable works.

Cahuns books was very important. Not only ideologically, It was one of the first sources about the history of Central Asian Turks and Origins of the Turks which was very valuable for Turkish Historians.