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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 22, 2008 2:01:46 GMT 3
Right now I am reading the travel report (Jīngxíngjì / Ching-hsing-chi 經行紀) written by Dù Huán (Tu Huan) 杜環, one of the Chinese soldiers who were taken captive by the Arabs at the Battle of Talas (751), also a relative of the famous Chinese historian Dù Yòu (Tu Yu) 杜佑 (735–812) who wrote Tōngdiǎn (T'ung-tien) 通典 between 766 and 801. While talking about Fúlǐnguó 佛菻國 (Fu-lin-kuo, Roman [Byzantine] Empire), Dù Huán 杜環 says that he heard some stories about a Nǚguó 女國 (Nü-kuo, Women Realm) located to the west of Fúlǐn 佛菻; he says he also heard that the women give birth (after getting pregnant) by getting affected by water.
Is it possible that while traveling in the Mediterrenean region, Dù Huán 杜環 somehow heard some ancient stories about the Amazons?
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Post by keaganjoelbrewer on Sept 22, 2008 12:25:43 GMT 3
Sounds very interesting!
Does the text give any more details? The Amazons were supposed to have a number of traits such as cutting off the right breast to shoot archery better, mating with neighbouring tribes, killing male children etc. Any of these sorts of things in there?
Herodotus actually placed the Amazons in 'Scythia', but you have to be careful about Herodotus. He was a bit crazy... His history is full of strange and wonderful mythologies, like flying snakes and giant ants. Despite this, there are a number of people who think that the Amazons are connected with the east.
Could you please also pass along the bibliographical reference to the account? I've tried to find it before but I couldn't. Thanks!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 22, 2008 12:44:09 GMT 3
Unfortunately, there are only two sentences regarding this realm, one about it's geographical location, one about how they give birth. It later passes to the other lands.
I read this travel report from an un-published article written by my current advisor (I made it's lingual corrections, finished it last night). If you want, I can list the article's bibliography, but half of them are in Chinese.
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Post by keaganjoelbrewer on Sept 22, 2008 14:34:47 GMT 3
Chinese =(
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Post by Temüjin on Sept 22, 2008 20:18:28 GMT 3
interesting indeed. well i suppose the region of Meotis was well known for their independent women. what dot eh Chinese eman with FuLin?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 22, 2008 21:24:21 GMT 3
Most of the scholars agree that Fúlǐnguó 佛菻國 (Fu-lin-kuo) is the Roman (or Eastern Roman, Byzantine) Empire. It is clearly stated in the text that Fúlǐn 佛菻 was called Dà Qín (Ta Ch'in) 大秦 during the Hàn Dynasty period (206 BC-220 AD) - and it is a well-known fact that Dà Qín 大秦 is indeed the classical Roman Empire.
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Post by mongol194 on Sept 23, 2008 14:09:23 GMT 3
LOl amazons!!! ;D I've heard tales of a race of warrior women in India, actually they were the bodyguards of hindu, or were they budhist, kings. My ancestors supposedly feared them as witches or devils becuase they fought better than the men! Apparently when the turks raided india under Mahmood of ghazni they were said to have shown no mercy. Whilst the most of the indian troops they met regardless of superior numbers fled, it is said that when the turks took what is now Lahore in Pakistan they were resisted by the kings guardians some 2000 warrior women! The turks did what i would have done they shot them with arrows! However the fact that they fought so well led to the turks showing no mercy to them becuase the women were said to have eaten the flesh of the many men they had killed in the start of the siege! If we go back in history a bit you see that it was almost 3 centuries before the ghaznavids when the kingdom of india would have streched far beyond the kyber pass, Afghanistan almost on the frontiers of arabia would have been well in the range of these indian warrior women perhaps early encounters by persians, Byzantines, arabs and chinese would have easily spread tales of Amazons. Any descriptions of these women by du-han? Apparrently they were common in India and south china!  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 23, 2008 16:56:02 GMT 3
LOL that's an interesting story, especially this one: "The turks did what i would have done they shot them with arrows!" ;D ;D ;D ;D Unfortunately, Dù Huán 杜環 does not give any more details about this "Women Realm". He also did not go there, but recorded that he heard tales of it, said to be located "west" of Byzantium. The only other detail he gives is about how they give birth to children. Nothing else is written about them  |
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Post by Temüjin on Sept 23, 2008 22:32:30 GMT 3
it's unlikely that it was west of byzantium, no region west of Byzantium has any form of female warrior cult or similar. Amazon like stories are only known from Central Asia and India indeed.
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Sept 23, 2008 23:22:43 GMT 3
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Post by Temüjin on Sept 23, 2008 23:41:02 GMT 3
yeah that's the historical region of Meotis, commonly attribtued as amazon homeland based on the many female buried in Kurgans.
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Post by Bor Chono on Sept 24, 2008 12:21:37 GMT 3
he says he also heard that the women give birth (after getting pregnant) by getting affected by water. I guess such story was in Chinese "Monkey king" story.  www.china-on-site.com/monkey.phpMonkey kings 2 bro-friends & his teacher becomes pregnant when they drunk the water. Monkey king searched for anti-pregnancy water. Found the water & cured=LOL his teacher & bro-friends. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 24, 2008 13:19:23 GMT 3
That's interesting ;D
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Post by Bor Chono on Sept 25, 2008 10:41:56 GMT 3
They were about to give birth in few days. That`s quite fast pregnancy! I think ;D
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Post by keaganjoelbrewer on Oct 18, 2008 8:24:09 GMT 3
I came across this little story inside the report of the missionary John di Plano Carpini (Giovanni Pian de Carpine, etc.) while I was reading it the other day. He journeyed to the east in the 1240s and 50s. I know it's 500 years later than Du Huan, but the story is still interesting on the topic of mythological women societies.
"On their return journey through the desert they came to a land where - so we were definitely told at the Emperor's court by Russian clerics and others who had been living among them for a long time - they found monsters who had the likeness of women. When they asked them by means of many interpreters where the men-folk of that country were, they replied that every female born there had a human form, but every male had the shape of a dog. Whilst they were prolonging their stay in this land, the dogs collected together in another part of the river and, in the severe winter weather, they plunged into the water; immediately after this they rolled in the dust, and the dust thus mixed with the water froze on them. When they had done this many times, they were covered with a thick coating of ice, and with a great rush they joined battle with the Tartars [Mongols]. But when the latter shot at them with their arrows, the arrows rebounded as if they had shot at stones; nor were their other arms able to injure them in any way. The dogs, however, springing upon the Tartars, bit them, wounding and killing many of them, and in this way they cast them out of their country. This gave rise to a saying which is still current among the Tartars: 'Your father or brother was killed by the dogs'. The women they captured they took to their country and they were there until they died."
(Dawson, Mission to Asia, p.23)
He then goes on to talk about how the Tibetans eat their own parents... hehe crazy fellow. I bet you those Russians were laughing at him behind his back ;D
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