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Uzbeks
Jun 4, 2008 5:36:12 GMT 3
Post by ryukyurhymer on Jun 4, 2008 5:36:12 GMT 3
I'm interested in the looks of Uzbeks. From pictures, the ones in Afghanistan look very Asiatic, closer to Kazakhs and Mongols. A Hazara I know, who have strong Asiatic features, told me that Hazaras viewed the Uzbeks as cousins due to similar features. but many of the ones in Uzbekistan seem to have more Persian features. I've read that the gov't of Uzbekistan lowballed the percentage of Uzbeks in the country and they may be as high as 40-50% of the population! Perhaps these Persian looking Uzbeks are ethnically Tajik? They say the ruling class like Karimov are the asiatic ones as him and his daughter don't look like those Persian looking Uzbeks. and
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Uzbeks
Jun 4, 2008 12:48:09 GMT 3
Post by nanman on Jun 4, 2008 12:48:09 GMT 3
Nice pictures and interesting point. I think the Uzbeks in Uzbekistan as well as looking more "Persian" in that you meant less oriental ? As well as being historical. The USSR / Russia factor may have come into play. There has been a lot of mixing and therefore, resulting in less oriental look.
I am relating to the case with Kazakhs from Kazakhstan and Kazakhs that I met in ET. The pictures that I have seen of Kazakhs in Kazakhstan shows much stronger Eurasian features, some would have been historical since it is further West than ET and I am lead to think some is as a result of inter-marriages with the other USSR nationalities who have settled in Kazakhstan.
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Uzbeks
Jun 5, 2008 12:54:50 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 5, 2008 12:54:50 GMT 3
Interesting point of view. The Uzbeks (Özbeks) were formed from several different layers of peoples. The original inhabitants were Soghdians and Tajiks of Iranic stock. After the Mongol invasions, Turkics started settling in the big cities (before that, there were already Turkics, especially Turkmens, living in the countryside), making the modern urban population that look like Iranian-Turkic mix. After the 15th century, a new wave of Qypchaqs under the Sheybanid dynasty invaded Transoxiana, introducing the name Özbek (Uzbek); these are still called "Nomadic Uzbeks" while their language is considered to be in the Qypchaq Group, while standart Uzbek is a part of the Central Group, being a descendent of Chaghatay Turkic (which can be traced back to Qarakhanid "Khâqânî" dialect).
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Uzbeks
Jun 5, 2008 13:48:27 GMT 3
Post by ryukyurhymer on Jun 5, 2008 13:48:27 GMT 3
^ do they live all together or do certain ones live in certain areas? I've heard more Asiatic looking Uzbeks tend to live in one area, while ones who are descended from settled groups and Tajiks who were reclassified as Uzbeks, live in areas like Samarkand
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Uzbeks
Jun 5, 2008 15:38:33 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 5, 2008 15:38:33 GMT 3
To tell the truth, I don't know in detail
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Uzbeks
Jun 7, 2008 10:26:57 GMT 3
Post by ALTAR on Jun 7, 2008 10:26:57 GMT 3
Uzbeks of Semerkand and Bukhara had mixed heavily with Native Iranic Peoples; Sogdians, Persians and Tajiks. Its because of the unity of religion. Besides these areas, Turkic Uzbeks are mainly populated. they named the people of Semerkand and Buhara as Sart(a word which refers to Sogd, Sogdians, Natives, Non-Turks). However we cannot say as Buhara and Semerkand, pure Tajik, Iranic cities. They have also a sizeable Turk population too.
Some of these Native Iranians also had Turkic features because of race-mixing. I see many Tajiks who looks like same with Uzbeks. For instance Islam Kerimov had % 50 Tajik Blood. Assimilation is necessary for both sides. But Turkic Uzeks are majority in Uzbekistan.
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Uzbeks
Jun 16, 2008 0:51:47 GMT 3
Post by Azadan Januspar on Jun 16, 2008 0:51:47 GMT 3
Yeah, But you have to consider the demographic backgrounds and the consequent intermarriages between turkics and iranics too.( Where did the big portion of the iranic nomads of the area gone missing throughout the centuries?) Intermarriages could be one of the answers. Ye also have to notice that "Persians" as an ethnic group refers to Persian tribes or inhabitants of the mostly south and SW Iran, not to be confused with the whole Iranian stock ( The basis of this could be the illiterate Arab historians who used to call the whole people of the kingdom of the Sassanids as Persians "Al-Fars" and after that the new usage of it in the modern era. Actually many people not pleased with Iran's history like Azarbayjani pan-turkists in Iran use to call the Iranian majority as 'Fars' though it's technically wrong, funny)
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Uzbeks
Jun 17, 2008 3:16:25 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 17, 2008 3:16:25 GMT 3
In Turkey, as well as in European and American countries, people usually confuse the terms "Persian", "Iranian" and "Iranic", which have totally different meanings. Like how the terms "Turkish" and "Turkic" are confused.
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Uzbeks
Jun 26, 2008 18:08:48 GMT 3
Post by ALTAR on Jun 26, 2008 18:08:48 GMT 3
Yeah, But you have to consider the demographic backgrounds and the consequent intermarriages between turkics and iranics too.( Where did the big portion of the iranic nomads of the area gone missing throughout the centuries?) If I dont consider it, I didnt mention that Kerimov is half Tajik... I dont disagree Persian, Iranian settlements and nomads in the region. However, I dont believe their heavy race-mixing. Its a bit Soviet and Chavunist Shah Regime propaganda who denied Turkishness of native people... Intermarriages, race mixing is only in the higher percentage for metropols... Intermarriages could be one of the answers. Ye also have to notice that "Persians" as an ethnic group refers to Persian tribes or inhabitants of the mostly south and SW Iran, not to be confused with the whole Iranian stock ( The basis of this could be the illiterate Arab historians who used to call the whole people of the kingdom of the Sassanids as Persians "Al-Fars" and after that the new usage of it in the modern era. Actually many people not pleased with Iran's history like Azarbayjani pan-turkists in Iran use to call the Iranian majority as 'Fars' though it's technically wrong, funny) I agree with you in that point. The İranic peoples arenot only Fars(Persian) people. Its known wrong in Azerbaijan and Turkey. There are many Iranic communities who arenot ethnically Fars such as Mazendarani, Gileki, Lur, Bakhtiyar, Lek, Tat, Talish etc.
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