Hello Ihsan
Before I go into my disertation I would like to know more about Turkey, Mongolia and their cultures. I'm already pretty familiar with Turkish history and culture in regards to the arrival of the Seljuks and then later the Ottomans. However, I'm curious to know if you can tell me exactly where they both originated from? Is there already a thread that discusses this topic in detail? I would like to know more about this subject matter.
Actually, this posting is very lengthy, however, I think it's definitely worthwhile for you or anyone to read if you have the time. It includes information about the development and evolution of the Hungarian/Magyar nation in Europe written by real professional Magyar scholars based specifically on ancient written documents and archaeological evidence......factual evidence.
The information below confirms my belief that the Hun, Avars and Magyars were all closely related ethnically, culturally and linguistically so that there was a smooth transition of power as each group migrated into Europe.
In regards to ethnicity and not cultural identity: Almost all the documents I've been reading have clearly stated that the Hun who invaded and settled in Europe were racially mixed, Mongoloid, Caucasian and Middle Eastern. More recent archaeological digging for evidence at Hun grave sites throughout Europe has proved this to be the case. Also, this same archaeological evidence found at Avar grave sites throughout Europe has proved in recent years that the Avars were mostly of Mongoloid ethnicity.
Please keep in mind that a very significant number of original Hun/Avar/Magyar people perished during the first major invasion of Hungary, mainly in the Eastern half of the country. As I mentioned previously, this region of Hungary was repopulated with Kun and Kipchak tribes.
During the second great invasion of Hungary about half of the country's original total population perished, mainly in the Southern and Eastern regions of the country - The Great Southern and Northern Plains (Steppes) areas. Since this invasion ended Hungary was repopulated with a significant number of Slavic, Germanic and Jewish people, especially Slavic people who settled in the areas that suffered the greatest loss of life.
For the most part, the Northern region of Hungary was not affected by the last great invasion. My grandparent's original villages before they migrated to Budapest were located on the very North Central fringe of the old Hungarian Empire borders that existed for 1,000 years until the end of WWI. However, it's important to note the fact that a significant number of people migrated and resettled in the Northern Region of Hungary during the last great invasion to escape from all the carnage. I would have left too! In most of their battles during this invasion the Hungarian Army was outnumbered 6 to 1! It's very difficult for any army to win a battle with those odds!
I call myself The Real Hun because my family was originally from the Northern Region of Hungary.
They only moved to Budapest not long before WWI began and lived there briefly before moving to the USA in 1913.
WHAT IS THE TRUTH ABOUT
ÁRPÁD'S INGRESS?
by
Endre Kolozsvári Grandpierre
Is the revision of Árpád's conquest necessary?
The question of Árpád's "conquest" (henceforth "Conquest") is not as clear, as it appears to be. There are some very serious doubts concerning this theory, which already began in the Middle Ages. Márk Kálti's(1) Képes Krónika (Illuminated Chronicle) states the following:
"So if some codexes contain the statement, that those seven captains came into Pannonia (meaning the seven heads of clans in allegiance with Árpád) and Hungary came into existence only through them, then where did Ákus, Bor, Aba and the other Hungarian nobility come from, since they all had their origins in Skythia and are not newcomers. The only argument in favor of this theory is one word that was preserved by the common folk: Hétmagyar (Seven Magyars). So if only these seven Magyars (Hungarians) entered the country and we do not count any of their families, wives, sons, daughters and male and female servants, would it have been possible to conquer entire countries? Impossible."
The Képes Krónika's well founded observation questions the entire so-called "Conquest"; he brings up the question as to how a small army could have occupied an entire country. The Képes Krónika's question encompasses hundreds of years up to Count Széchenyi, who then again brought up the very same problem. One of the noted Hungarian linguists of the 19th century explains this in his posthumous work: The Origin of the Hungarian Language; his work has been permitted to slide into oblivion.
"A section of the Scytho-Hungarians was already settled near the Danube long before the birth of our Lord Christ, under the name of Jász and Baranyás. So when in the 4th century AD a group arrived, under the leadership of Bal-ember, then again the Honnos of Scythia, the Avars of the 6th century AD and finally the Honigurians of the 9th century exited from their former habitat (and so we can count on four occasions that the Scytho-Hungarians came., They came not through blind adventure onto an unknown and foreign land (even if some of the Eastern and Western heads of state had not called their help from time to time), but they came to their brothers from whom they learned well in advance of the goodness and the nature of this land.
We have also seen that they were not lawless takers of this country. Because their families occupied these lands first, and this first ownership gave them the just and lawful right to own it. They multiplied here and became mighty that even individual groups of these people, like the Jász and the Berénes of Pannonia did dare to take on and fight the Romans... So when the Honnos arrived, they came to their kindred."
This is one of the statements of József Keresztesi in his work which was published in 1844 in Pozsony. He is talking of four waves of reoccupation of the land; if we add the original ancient habitation we can speak of five different layers of occupation by the same people.
The question arises, how could it be that Keresztesi's work never got the proper attention and discussion in Hungary, when so many other anti-Hungarian anti-tradition books and cheap, unscientific works did get a wide publicity and honors.
But let us go further and skip back to the beginnings of our century to another work that was equally neglected and silenced, written by Bálint Gábor Szentkatolnai. His work was published in 1901 in Kolozsvár under the title The Revision of the Conquest in which he brings into sharp focus the untenability of the "Conquest" theory and the necessity of revision.
"It is already half a century that the unbiased Held and Corvin, in discussions about Hungary, mention that there is not much known about the origins of this nation. And this still holds true due to the Finno-Turk and other fancy theories and deductions of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. When one is writing textbooks or discussing the origins of the Hungarian nation and not subscribing to either aforementioned theories, what else can one say but the following: according to the Finnish school of the Academy, the Hungarians are Finno-Ugric by race, and according to the Turcic theorists they are of the Turkis-Tatar race. As if a third possibility had never existed and as if we would have to call a melon either a squash or a cucumber because all three plants belong to one genus..."
The third progressive Hungarian scientist within three decades is Lajos Marjalaki Kiss (1928) who also brings up the following question:
"It has been about five years now since I excavated the graves of Mezõnyék, dating to the early centuries of the great migrations and studied in context very thoroughly the archaeological findings of the Hungarian middle ages. I developed the firm conviction that Árpád's conquest brought only a political change to the country; the ancient population (estimated 90 %) remained the same as it always had been. I do believe that the sum total of today's Magyars did not come with the Árpáds but has already been here even before the Avars and the Huns and spoke the Magyar (Hungarian) language."
Do I have to mention, that the works of Lajos Marjalaki Kiss were also pushed into oblivion?
But let us go further. A number of antic authors testify to the Magyar-Hun-Scythan ownership of Hungary, among them - and I mention only the better known authors - is Herodotos, Strabo, Xenophon, Jordanes and Josephus Flavius who write about the Scythans as the first, aboriginal owners of Hungary and the lands on which they lived. According to their testimony the Scythans (meaning Scytho Hungarians) ruled Europe and Asia.
It is an undeniable fact that the Carpathian basin was inhabited by Scytho-Hungarian people since prehistoric times and that this was the center, the heart of the Scythan empire. (page 11-15)
(...)
A Unique Defense system.
The Árpáds could not yet settle down in Hungary when they already began strengthening the border defense with a mighty force. The ancient inhabitants followed them in this endeavor. Not because they were forced laborers, but it was they who brought the subject of the necessity of a defense system up to the Árpáds.
Would it be possible, that the Árpád conquest was only an occupation?
If this is the case, the first thing on their agenda would have been the subjugation of the inhabitants, and the destruction of their power bases. And as this is a large territory, the entire Carpathian basin: this process would have lasted for many years and many bloody battles could only have brought a relative peace and quiet to this land.
But the Árpáds did not have time to look around in the country when they began to build the fortification of the borders - in complete agreement and unison with the ancient inhabitants of the country. It was this defense system, that was the most urgent and important action to them. Anonymus paints a broad picture through several chapters in his book of the sequence of the reoccupation of the land and the measures taken to fortify it. Due to the restrictions of this work I quote only a few selected, short segments of his work.
The Árpáds even became owners of castle fortifications without resistance. The foreign mercenaries who manned these gave the castles over with at most a weak, pro-forma resistance.
It is the aboriginal populace that hurried the building of fortifications.
"When they settled in this manner - writes Anonymus -heading the warnings of the inhabitants, they decided that they would send Bors*, the son of Böngér, with large troops toward the land of the Poles to inspect the borders of the country and to fortify them with obstacles all the way to the Tátra mountains and to build a castle on an appropriate spot for the sake of defense.
After occupying the castles on the Felvidék - writes Anonymus - which up to this day is called Sempte, Galgóc, Trencsén, Bolondóc and Bán (...) and after they placed guards in the castles, they went up to the Morva river and built barricades there. The borders of the Hungarian lands were established up to Borona and Sárvár.
Szekcsõ (Dunaszekcsõ today) was built by Og, the son of Ute, who marched toward Baranya county with his troops and built his castle on a land which today is called Dunaszekcsõ, but its common name is Szekcsõ (Zekuseu) which means that he settled there and built a permanent home. (Szék = seat)."
The writings of Anonymus make it clear, that not only some of the aboriginal inhabitants of the Carpathian valley were true to the Árpáds, but the entire population and they all helped them to establish the forest-borders of the country.
The borders of the country were already given, settled and final at the tumultuous time of Árpád's return. The reason for the grandiose project was to prevent other foreigners from invading the country. In other words, the idea of the nation which meant the entire Hungary already existed and looked back to a long tradition at the time of Árpád's introit; - the country meant the entire historical Hungary and was a fully developed, firm historical legal concept, need and requirement in the consciousness of its inhabitants.
The very interesting coinciding circumstance of the times is that the Árpádian dukes decided to build the fortifications of the borders due to the petition of the inhabitants. (...) These inhabitants could ask for these fortifications only because the castle fortifications were already developed at an earlier age, but was later - probably at the time of the disintegration of the Avar empire - destroyed. Consequently the inhabitants asked the Árpádian dukes that these old defense systems be rebuilt, repaired and fortified; they in turn had to agree with the just nature of this petition which was based upon a historical past and the necessity of which they could not deny. Denial would have been difficult considering that the country's population offered their services to complete this work of immense scope.
As we can see, the inherent, and hitherto obscured logic of the Anonymus text brings us to further facts and ever newer certainties that the ethnicity of the population of the Carpathian valley was Magyar. (page 40-43)
* The Bors family-name is by no means new in Europe even before the Árpáds. Among others Bors is one of the heroes of the Arthurian legends as it was preserved through tradition. (Ed.)
Endre Kolozsvári Grandpierre is a writer, poet, historian, and a pioneer in researching and discovering unknown facets of Hungarian history. His ancestors were of French Huguenot origin, who fled to Switzerland and settled in Hungary in 1820. His great-grandfather was the secretary to Lajos Kossuth, leader of the 1848 freedom fight. His family also served in Garibaldi's freedom movement. His maternal ancestry is Transylvanian Hungarian. Endre K. Grandpierre was on the black list of the Rákosi regime in 1953. His poem "About me" (Magamról) talks about this experience and was broadcast on BBC.