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Post by wefone90 on Jan 19, 2007 16:51:27 GMT 3
I was particularly interested on how did the greek acknowledged that, a greek travelled beyond pontic steppe perhaps? any sources for this? how does the texts being transmitted? possibly a forged materials by the later Arab writers? These are the questions that seems interesting me. Unfortunately we knew nothing much abt greek classics texts, their transmission through medieval ages, etc, and nothing much is being told about.
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Post by naaya on Jul 23, 2007 1:52:54 GMT 3
I dun think the Hunnus are ancestors of the Turks . bitgii onigoond orooroi. huns are ancestors of the turks and the mongols bouth. try to read more books and then say something okey... at leas 1 book from KTMC. for example early mongols by serdaram
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Post by naaya on Jul 23, 2007 1:57:18 GMT 3
They were called Huns by the Indians and Greeks, whereas Chinese travelers who visited White Hun territories say that the White Huns were related with the earlier Xiongnu. huns or hunnu means on old mongolian human
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Post by Atabeg on Dec 19, 2007 11:18:26 GMT 3
^lol
I doubt that the people are ignorant in these matters
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Post by w0lf on Dec 20, 2007 3:42:15 GMT 3
Great job H. Ihsan Erkoc!!! Huns are ancestor of mongols?If this is is true,we must accept that Turk are ancestor of mongols... None is pure...Turks are mixed, so are the Mongols. Without any doubt they share the same ancestors. And Huns are one of them.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 20, 2007 18:17:34 GMT 3
Hi w0lf, welcome aboard, and thank you
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Post by w0lf on Dec 21, 2007 1:54:53 GMT 3
Hi w0lf, welcome aboard, and thank you Thank you brother. I also thank Tujue for telling me about this Forum! I have to learn a lot about Xiongnu Empire and the Huns.
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Altantugs
Är
The Hope die at the End
Posts: 12
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Post by Altantugs on Sept 4, 2008 9:40:33 GMT 3
Oh! The Huns are turk? Is it true? Also The Huns are mongolian ancestors? Is it true? The problem is make evidence. Researchers have been finding answer until now. Many researchers wrote, what The Huns are ancestor of Mongolian and Turkish. Mongolian and Turkish ancestor is Huns. In the Hun Empire's time, mongolian or turkish people hadn't generated. There were lived Altaic or Indo-euro tribes.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 4, 2008 11:20:16 GMT 3
No, they were, like some other peoples before them, Turkic (not Turkish). You should know that there were Turkic people before the emergence of the Türk (Celestial Turk / Kök Türük / Gök Türk / Tūjué [T'u-chüeh] 突厥) Empire in the mid-6th century. The ancestors of Mongols were not Huns, but the Xiānbēi 鮮卑 and the Eastern Hu (Dōng Hú / Tung Hu 東胡). The Mongols have nothing to do with the Huns. Besides, while Chinese sources always talk about a relationship and bond between the Huns and other some later Turkic peoples, they never talk about any link between the Huns and the later Mongols.
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Altantugs
Är
The Hope die at the End
Posts: 12
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Post by Altantugs on Sept 5, 2008 6:29:22 GMT 3
Well, turkic ("tureg"-ic? "tureg"-ish?). Huh Turks generated from Ashina, Ashina was in the Nirun state (330-555). Nirun, also Joujuan (Rou-ruan) is one of mongolian dunhu-syanbi tribes. Ashina was in Altai mountain. In 555, Ashina's Hoh Turks beat Nirun and occupied all Central Asia. In this time, Hoh turks generated. (So, Hoh turks are generated from Nirun . It is JOKE.) Nirun State (Joujuan), Toba State (Tabgach or Wei state in north China), Muyun (Mujun), Togon (Tuyuhuni) are all generated from Dunhu-Syanbi. In the Chinese sources said, all they are generations of the Huns (Hu of North) and Dunhu (Hu of East). So, mongolian and turkic ancestors were same clans and tribes in the Hun empire. Before BC209, old huns (Tumen's Hun tribes) were living around Khangai mountain, near Khatan gol (Huan-he) and Ordos. Dorvoljin Bulsh (Square Tomb) culture's people and Bugan chuluu culture's people both are ancestors of Huns and Dunhu.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 5, 2008 13:11:28 GMT 3
Well, turkic ("tureg"-ic? "tureg"-ish?). Huh Turks generated from Ashina, Ashina was in the Nirun state (330-555). Nirun, also Joujuan (Rou-ruan) is one of mongolian dunhu-syanbi tribes. Ashina was in Altai mountain. In 555, Ashina's Hoh Turks beat Nirun and occupied all Central Asia. In this time, Hoh turks generated. (So, Hoh turks are generated from Nirun . It is JOKE.) This is true only about a specific Turkic people, not for all the Turkic peoples. Ever heard about the Dingling, Gaoche, Tiele, Qyrghyz, etc? These were before the Tujue. There were Turks before the name Turk, just like there were Mongols before the name Mongol. With your logic, I can claim that there were no Mongols before the 12th century But we all know that this is un-true. So is your statement about the Turks. Nirun State (Joujuan), Toba State (Tabgach or Wei state in north China), Muyun (Mujun), Togon (Tuyuhuni) are all generated from Dunhu-Syanbi. In the Chinese sources said, all they are generations of the Huns (Hu of North) and Dunhu (Hu of East). So, mongolian and turkic ancestors were same clans and tribes in the Hun empire. Before BC209, old huns (Tumen's Hun tribes) were living around Khangai mountain, near Khatan gol (Huan-he) and Ordos. Dorvoljin Bulsh (Square Tomb) culture's people and Bugan chuluu culture's people both are ancestors of Huns and Dunhu. The Chinese sources do not give any connections between the Huns and Eastern Hu. If so, may I ask you where in which source exactly is that info given? On the contrary, I can give you dozens of info connecting the Huns with the other Turkic peoples. No, the Turkic and Mongolic peoples had been already separated by the time the Hunnic Empire was established. The Eastern Hu are the first well-known organized Mongolic or Proto-Mongolic people. After Modu Chanyu's attack, these were divided into the Wuhuan and Xianbei (*Serbet). The later Mongolic peoples like the Kitans, Tatars, Tatabys, Shiwei, Tabghach, Togon, etc were all descendents of the *Serbet people. On the other hand, the real Huns (the statement that everyone living under the rule of the Huns was called "Hun" makes you believe that the Huns were our common ancestors), Dingling, Yenisei Qyrghyz (Jiankun), Hegu and presumably the Wusun were Turkic peoples at that time. We have evidences of them speaking dialects Turkic. The Weishu says that the language of the Gaoche (ancestors of Tiele [*Tegreg] and Uyghurs) was the same with the language of the Yueban Huns. We have a Hunnic poem recorded with Chinese characters, re-constructed as Turkic by Louis Bazin. We have Hunnic words recorded in Chinese sources that are identified as Old Turkic. The Chinese sources keep saying that the *Tegreg, Uyghurs, Kök Türüks (Tujue), etc were all related with the Huns. Yes, the Turks and Mongols probably had a common ancestor, but that was much before the time of the Huns. The Huns, a Turkic people, united all the Turko-Mongol peoples living in Mongolia and Western Manchuria (hence, actualy the Mongols didn't live in Mongolia before a much later time), and according to a letter written by Laoshang Chanyu to the Chinese emperor, these were all renamed "Huns". This means that the Turkic Huns united our ancestors. This is what makes modern Mongols claim the Huns
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Post by keaganjoelbrewer on Oct 4, 2008 9:05:46 GMT 3
Ihsan, I'm interested to know.. what do you think of the idea that the Huns that invaded Europe in the 370s are those same that moved westwards after the collapse of the Xiong-Nu empire?
I've read a few historians talking about this idea before.
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Post by keaganjoelbrewer on Oct 4, 2008 9:07:58 GMT 3
Ok, you can delete that post... I just found the thread for the Xiong-Nu Huns thing.
sorry, lol!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 5, 2008 0:10:55 GMT 3
lol no problem ;D
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Post by realhun on Mar 30, 2009 9:19:54 GMT 3
Hello Everyone, This is a very interesting web site! I just joined and this is my first communication on a web site with people who are from a similar ethnic heritage as mine. I've enjoyed reading all the information everyone has posted so far. I've read a lot of information about this subject in recent years attempting to find the answer to this question. I believe the Huns were the ancestors of both the Mongols and the Turks and that they were already mixed ethnically and culturally even before they began their Westward migration towards Europe. Actually, the debate regarding the answer to this question still rages on among Hungarians/Magyars! I believe it's a difficult question to answer conclusively because the time period was so long ago. As the Huns migrated Westward they mixed with the people they came in contact with physically and culturally. So....by the time they ended up in modern day Hungary they were very mixed up and confused! LOL The Hungarian/Magyar language is very unique. I often read that it's most closely related to the Uyghur language. I understand from what I've read that the Uyghur Empire began when the Huns started their Westward migration towards Europe. I can say this: The word for God in Hungarian/Magyar is the same as it is in Turkish - "Istan". However, the word "kun" is very prevalent in the Hungarian/Magyar language, names and name places. This word comes from an Asian tribe of people who were invited to settle in the Southern Great Plain - "Puszta" adjacent to the region that bears my family's name "Hajos". I believe I read in an earlier posting that someone mentioned that this word "kun" is a Mongol word? These people were called the Kumans and they had their own distinct language that existed in Hungary for about 600 years up until the beginning of the 20th. Century! Over time, just like each tribe who settled in Hungary, they assimilated into the surrounding population physically and culturally. One must understand that the original Huns, Avars and Magyars who settled in Hungary mixed with each other and the Slavic and Germanic people they came in contact with once they arrived in Europe. There were periods of time during Hungarian history when various Asian Tribes either invaded Hungary or were invited to settle there. Also, there were periods of time after the invasions when significant numbers of Germanic and Slavic people migrated to and settled in specific regions of Hungary. I would be curious to know what the original Huns actually looked like and what their culture was like. My grandparents were from Hungary and ever since I was young I noticed there was something unique and different about my father's family. My father's family was from a European country, however, they didn't look totally European. They definitely have an Asian mixture and more leaning to the Mongol persuasion in my opinion. I would say Far Eastern to further clarify. However, as someone previously stated: What is Mongolian and Turkish? They are ethnically mixed and so are the present day Hungarians! I visited Hungary and discovered that the people are very ethnically mixed and the physical makeup of the people changes in various ways by region. I will post some photos of me and my family, including a photo of my Hungarian/Magyar grandparents taken in 1918 when they got married as soon as I can get it to work! I've been to Istanbul, Turkey and Xian, China. I was very impressed and amazed by both of these cities! Some day I want to go back to Turkey to see the rest of the country and I also want to visit Mongolia. Best regards from a transplanted Steppe Man who now lives on the Great Steppes of the USA! The Real Hun - Hajos
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