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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 18, 2004 22:43:09 GMT 3
(Originially posted by BK at October 18, 2004)---- I think I already ask this question at the old AE forum, but I willask it again. 1 Where was the title first ever mentioned and used Ihsan said that the Xian bei ( If I remember right ) was the first one to use them??? Which people does the Xian bei belong to , the manchu , mongols or proto-turks 2. Did the Hsiung-nu use that title and why ------------ (Originially posted by Temujin at October 18, 2004)---- 1. Xianbei I think, and they're proto-mongols 2. no, the used the title Chanyu, original name of the title is unknown. ------------ (Originially posted by me at October 18, 2004)---- The Xianbei used "Khaghan" ( Kehan in Chinese) for the first time but I think it was used only once, it was the Ruanruan who widely used the title the first, followed by the Tujue and Avars. I don't know when "Khan" was used the first time. The Xianbei were the ancestors of all Mongolic peoples, we can say they were Proto-Mongols. The title of Xiongnu rulers was Chengli Gudu Chanyu or just Chanyu.
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Post by Bor Chono on Nov 17, 2005 12:55:37 GMT 3
Chinese give many stupid names to Mongols! We Mongols call our leaders as -Haan. Poeple /western mongols/ who can`t call `He` right call -Khaan. In ancient Mongol writings Haan is spelled as `Hagaan`.
Haan means `Supreme leader, !!!Lord!!!, Lord of Lords` Han means `Top leader, lesser Lord, Not high!` Hn /or Hm.../ means `Sorry I don`t know you! ;D`
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Post by Bor Chono on Nov 17, 2005 13:00:55 GMT 3
The title of Xiongnu rulers was Chengli Gudu Chanyu or just Chanyu -Sorry we Mongols don`t think so! Chanyu -is given name by chinese, it means `Good guy or Good warrior`. Many our historian belive that Hunnic rulers had different title. Maybe Khaan!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 20, 2005 17:57:33 GMT 3
Chanyu doesn't have a meaning in Chinese, it's the Chinese transcription of that Hunnic title.
The Xiongnu didn't use Khan nor Khaghan.
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Post by Bor Chono on Nov 21, 2005 8:57:37 GMT 3
Chanyu-sounds like alien word. We don`t understand it. But we know word "yanjin" the hunnic queen. "Yanjin" is translated as Goddess.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 28, 2005 2:32:27 GMT 3
Chanyu-sounds like alien word. We don`t understand it. But we know word "yanjin" the hunnic queen. "Yanjin" is translated as Goddess. Well Chanyu wasn't Chinese, it's the form written with Chinese transcription, we don't know it's original form (at least not yet). Yanji sounds very similar to Turkic Yeñge.
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Post by tengrikut on Feb 14, 2006 23:44:52 GMT 3
But yenge means a different woman:D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 15, 2006 23:20:43 GMT 3
Welcome my dear friend, tengrikut Yes today we use it with a different meaning, but I think it's quiet possible for Yanji to be the Chinese transcription of Turkic Yeñge.
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Post by tengrikut on Feb 19, 2006 23:29:37 GMT 3
Tahnk you, bootur! Yes may be as you said. But today, like many words, it has lost his first meaning and, have a different one
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Apr 12, 2006 22:32:19 GMT 3
maybe yanji can be eb-chi in old Turkic... Tekin stands on this idea hardly, I also support. I don't think yenge could be such an old name...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 12, 2006 23:51:36 GMT 3
Yes, that's also possible.
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Post by Bor Chono on Apr 13, 2006 15:44:56 GMT 3
Someone help me? making these words into old turk(=hunnic turk) please? 1.Lord 2.Mountain Lord(or king) 3.High 4.Powerful ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 14, 2006 18:57:26 GMT 3
I'm making these in the Old Turkic of the Gök Türk Period (6th-8th c. AD).
Lord: Hmm it depends on which meaning you want... It can de Teñri meaning God or Beg meaning a tribal ruler. Perhaps we can also use Qan or Qaghan for "Ruler" too... Mountain Lord: Yïsh Qan or Tagh Qan? Such a name doesn't exist so I made it up. High: Today we use Yüksek for that but I don't know what it was back in that time. Powerful: Küchlüg
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Apr 14, 2006 23:27:02 GMT 3
ın my home town they use "üskek" for "yüksek" which means "high", I think it can be the original word which come from "üze" (means "above") used in Orkhun language. Can it be?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 15, 2006 20:47:58 GMT 3
Yes you might be right, üze was used for "Above" in Old Turkic.
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