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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 7, 2006 21:39:25 GMT 3
Prof. Dr. Salim Koca from the Gazi University told me once that there is a town in Bavaria-Germany named "Awarbach" (I am not sure of the exact spelling as we were just taking) whose descendents might be of Avar origin. How much is this true?
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Post by Temüjin on Sept 7, 2006 22:44:55 GMT 3
well, there is a town called Auerbach in Bavaria which sounds like Awarbach, but Auer is the name of a bird that is almost extinct. other than that, there is no town in Bavaria with a name similar to Awarbach. Auer is also a common surename in southern germany, but i doubt the origin is from Awar.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 7, 2006 23:00:12 GMT 3
Ok, thank you Temujin Shad.
I will ask Prof. Koca for more information. Maybe he can give me the exact name and the exact location of that town (if it exists).
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Post by karakassita on Jul 22, 2007 19:41:33 GMT 3
Mr.Tigin and Temujin, When the Avarian Empire was destroyed by Charlemagne most of the Avar refuges got protection this place in Germany Since it is called the land of the Avars. (B)-Avaria. Dr.Salim Koca is right about his statement.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 22, 2007 19:44:58 GMT 3
Hello Mr. Karakassita, thank you for informing us, and welcome to our site Is it possible to see a map where that town is located?
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Post by karakassita on Jul 22, 2007 20:17:15 GMT 3
Mr.Tigin,I dint know where is the town in Bavaria,but it is more important that the whole state called B-Avaria.It is telling us that this part of Germany is Turanian by origin.The Bavarians are mostly dark haired and medium in stature and also more creative than other Germans.A typical example of this if you would look at the photographs of Ms.Gnaug the former female Olympic gymnast. She looks like a pechenak.Of course don't you ever try to tell them that they are not full blooded Germans.They would bite off your head.But their conservatism also spelling out their Turanian nature;leaving by the rules of God with tradition and morality.
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 22, 2007 21:16:27 GMT 3
this is completely wrong. this province in Germany is called Bayern, which comes from the Germanic tribe of Bajuwaren. the name similarity in English is a coincidence, like Hungary in English includes Hun, even though there is no relation.
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Post by naaya on Jul 22, 2007 21:16:39 GMT 3
I dont think so.. couse i live in bavaria
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 26, 2007 22:57:40 GMT 3
the ethymology of Bajuwaren/Bayern is as follows:
Baju-waren =Baju derives from the Celtic tribe of Boier (latin Boii) and the old germanic name for men, waren which only survived in the name werewolf (man-wolf). the name Bohemia dervies from this tribe as well, so basically it translates as "men from Bohemia"
Bayern just means Boians...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 27, 2007 18:56:17 GMT 3
Thank you guys for correcting a mistake.
Actually, Bavaria/Bayern is much more Celto-Germanic than "Turanic" and I doubt if they ever have any Ural-Altaic origins.
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Post by karakassita on Apr 6, 2009 2:50:27 GMT 3
Mr. Temujin. One more time about Bavaria. If we accept that the word Bayern is German, yes than no argument.The problem here is that this is the German opinion.The reality is the the Avars called themsefs Bay-ur.This is not a German word.Now ,let us see why. Ur means ;God, lord, man.Like "er,ir,ar"Like Baker.The man who bakes.Plumber,or the german mach-er, the man who makes. This coming from the city of Ur.There is no German connection here.Now ,what means Bay.It means charm,rich,owner of something.Like owner of immense respect.So the avars called themself Bai-ur.Respected man.This respect come from the immens ammount of gold they owned.They called their land Bay-on.The land of wealt.The land of charm. One of their leaders called himself."I am Bat-ur(brave),kagan of Bai-an."On ,an means homeland,country.The bayur name later was used with the same meaning of rich ,wealty land owner from Russia to Poland called "Boyar".In the form of great respect,it was used in the Ottoman Empire as high ranked officel"Bey". But eaven in today English we use it since without money you can not be a "BUYER". But" bay" has another meaning too.It means trabol.Just think about it Mr. Temujin:all of a soden you inherit 200 kg. of gold.You are the most charming fellow,and you inhereted a lots of trabol too.Charm is tarbol.That is why woman has to hide their charming power in muslem countries to prevent trabol.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 6, 2009 14:26:45 GMT 3
Where does it say that the Avars called themselves "Bay-ur"? That is not true And those names are not spelled like "Bat-ur" and "Bai-an", they are Baġatur (later Batur) and Bayan. "-an" is a suffix, not a word meaning "land", land is il in Old Turkic. Oh and the Avars have clearly nothing to do with the city of Ur in Sumer. Can't you see the huge time gap between the two? Sounds like some funny Finno-Hungarian theories to claim over the Sumerians ;D ;D
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Post by realhun on Apr 9, 2009 7:08:32 GMT 3
I've enjoyed reading the previous postings about this subject. I would like to submit my opinions and findings for what they're worth. It's important to look at both the linguistic and the ethnic aspects to answer this question fairly. Many of the sources I've read have stated that the Avars initially controlled a very large region of Europe and that they subjugated the people they dominated. They controlled this area for about 250 to 300 years. That's a pretty long time! The Western Region of the Avar Empire consisted of the Eastern half of present day Austria including Bavaria and all of East Germany. During this time period and especially when their empire began to weaken including the time since it's collapse many Avar people assimilated with the Germanic and Slavic people they subjugated. This assimilation was ethnic, cultural and linguistic. The Avars influenced the Germanic and Slavic peoples' ethnicity, culture and languages and visa versa. Archaeological evidence utilizing carbon dating technology doesn't lie. It's pretty darn accurate. I've stated this before in some of my other postings on other threads and I'll mention it again here. More recent archaeological digging throughout Europe has produced a lot more Avar artifacts and skeletal remains than had previously existed. Many of these findings come from original Avar burial sites located in Eastern Austria, Bavaria and East Germany during the earlier years of their empire. Also, they come from other original Avar burial sites located throughout the rest of Central and Eastern Europe. The artifacts and clothing found in the graves clearly show the influence the Avars had on Europe for a long time. Also, it's proved that the Avars had permanent settlements much farther West than had previously been known. The more recent archaeological work has been conducted by none Continental Europeans from Great Britain who have no bias one way or another. In a number of graves they found skeletal remains that clearly showed Mongoloid physical features. When I was in college and since then I've met Hansiatic, Swabian - (Northern Germans) and Bavarians. The Bavarians I've met certainly look different from most of the Northern Germans I've met. The Bavarians tend to be more stout and robust not as tall and thin. They tend to be darker in skin and hair color. Also, they tend to have a fuller rounder face. Even the German language that Bavarians speak is different and unique. Bavarians regard themselves as being unique from the rest of Germany and the rest of Germany feel the same way about Bavarians. Take a look at the lead singer, John Kay - (not his real name), from the band Steppenwolf who was originally from East Germany. He doesn't look very Nordic to me! I once met a woman who was born and raised in Germany. I assumed she was Chinese by looking at her. However, when I asked her where she was from I was really surprised when she told me she was born and raised in East Germany. My girlfriend in college was from East Germany and she definitely had an Eastern Asiatic physical influence. She was beautiful! and smart too! She could speak, read and write 6 languages! My Hungarian/Magyar Grandma could speak 5 languages after coming to the USA. My Hungarian/Magyar Grandparents, my father and his family members don't look very Nordic. I have a photo of my father when he was young and he looks like a Mongol boy to me. My uncle who was very intelligent was a History Teacher at a private high school in Chicago and his students thought he was Chinese American! Please keep in mind that I've been further mixed from my Mother's side of my family with Scots Irish and Dutch blood. However, I believe my Dutch Grandma had East Asian blood mixed in her. She had very thick coal black hair like my Hungarian/Magyar Grandma and had very Eastern Asian facial features. Knowing everything I've already mentioned above who is to know for certain about the origin of the words Bavaria and Bayern. With all the ethnic, cultural and linguistic changes that have occurred during and since the the Avar Empire existed in Europe who can say one way or another with 100% certainty. Today, I think only our God knows for sure.
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 10, 2009 1:23:54 GMT 3
How can we know for certain? Well for starters, the Boii are documented. So are the Baoiaware and the names Bohemia and Bayern. There's no such documentation to explain why a B would be added on to 'avar'.
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Post by Temüjin on Apr 10, 2009 20:02:25 GMT 3
well first of all Swabians are not Northern German. either way, dark complexions are found throughout Germany. Bavarian also isn't significantly different from German language, at least not more than any other German dialects are (like Swabian, Frankish, Saxon, Friesian). historically, Southern Germans have more Celtic features and Eastern Germans Slavic. that's about it.
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