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Post by Temüjin on May 31, 2007 23:23:18 GMT 3
the Turkmens of Turkmenistan were his enemies, also the Qajars were his enemies, but during his heyday he forced them into his alliance, just like the Kurds and others. in fact Nadirs most reliable allies were not even from his own tribe but were the Abdali/Durrani Afghan tribe. Nadir was captured by Turkmens not Uzbeks, Uzbeks didn't raided Iran, Turkmens raided Iran and sold them as slaves to Bukhara etc, but he was definately and 100% captured by Turkmens of Turkmenistan. and he was NOT one of them, he did NOT come from Turkmensahra but from Abivard near Mashad in Khurasan. from what i can tell the Turkmens never became his allies any time during his rule.
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Post by nisse on May 31, 2007 23:40:33 GMT 3
its not true that turkmens of turkmenistan went on raids on Iran, it did matter for them who it was, But it is true that the turkmens where bandits under some while and robbed the karavans, they did touch iran, they didnt have any purpose to attack the regime of Iran they just robbed the karavans, they didnt do it for fun,
they did it because they for forced, either they could die or become bandits, which would you have done
so was the asfghans he fought against them and later made them his allies, so what you are saying doenst make any sence,
which forces did he use then he forced the afghans out of Iran,
he used turkmens,
It true that the turkmens of turkmenistan fought against him, we have heors among the turkmens that fought against nader shah,
but you said it yourself that he forced them into allienace, thats enough
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 1, 2007 0:28:15 GMT 3
so was the asfghans he fought against them and later made them his allies, so what you are saying doenst make any sence, which forces did he use then he forced the afghans out of Iran, he used turkmens, It true that the turkmens of turkmenistan fought against him, we have heors among the turkmens that fought against nader shah, but you said it yourself that he forced them into allienace, thats enough I said the Abdalis were his most reliable troops, the Afghans he forced out of Isfahan and later conquered on his way to Delhi were the Ghilzai tribe, which are both arch-enemies of each others.... he also first fought against Qajars and Kurds and later forced them into his submission, whats so strange about that? Chinggis Khaan also subdued his enemies and made them fight for him, that makes perfect sense, it is typical. and its the last time i tell you that his armies contained NO Turkmens from Turkmenistan, Qajars and Afshars are as much Turkmen as Kurds are! and before making a new post go and inform yourself about the tribes of Central Asia before posting more crap like that!
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Post by nisse on Jun 1, 2007 2:52:16 GMT 3
what a hell are you talking about, if you check history refernces the qajar and afshar as described as turkmens I dont know what you have been reading , the book for stupids what is your refences, before you pull your pants down , listen are you familiar with the term false history written, not everybody gets the facts correct, they read from different sources ,its seems that your sources have been drawn in propaganda, what is it so difficult to understand, how many sources do you have been reading, one or how many My facts are , barthold , turkestan down to the mongol invasion,
Rene grousset , empires of the steppe
H. Maynard, "Nadir Shah,"
Lawrence Lockhart Nadir Shah
Cambridge History of Iran , dont remember the volym
also a bbc ,or i dont remember who made the documentary, but it sucked, it was wrong fact
när hände vad , or when did happen what,
I dont remember the author,
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 1, 2007 22:05:59 GMT 3
what a hell are you talking about, if you check history refernces the qajar and afshar as described as turkmens Afshars are Azeri... your reference is worth nothing, you didn't even knew the differences amongst Afghans, so how would you know the differences bewteen Turkmens? again you fail to appear as what you claim to be, you are just a silly Swede playing on our nerves! the book i quoted above is the only authorative work about Nadir at the moment, references to Lockhart are numerous and refered to in footnotes, Lockharts "facts" didn't always corresponded to contemporary primary sources by Nadirs personal historian or reports from the Dutch East India company representatives in Iran. your information is worth bullcrap!
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Post by nisse on Jun 2, 2007 0:08:17 GMT 3
who the hell do you think you are, saying that I am getting on everbodys nerve,
this is a place to discuss dont you like it then you can quite, no one is stopping you to that,
if you anything against swedish people you can go and f**k yourself
if you dont like it then quite,
its not like I have said something bad about your mother
what makes you sure that your facts are correct, is the aouther of the book you read a nadir shah professor who have dedicated his live to nadir shah,
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 2, 2007 1:33:19 GMT 3
what makes you sure that your facts are correct, is the aouther of the book you read a nadir shah professor who have dedicated his live to nadir shah, pretty much so...
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Post by kokturk on Jun 2, 2007 14:03:35 GMT 3
Everybody knows that Avshar is one of the 24 boy's of the Turkmens. Azeris are also Turkmens in origin. Qajars are also a branch of the Avshars so they are also Turkmens.
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Post by nisse on Jun 3, 2007 2:45:24 GMT 3
true words bro, tell that non-undersatind craxy german
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 3, 2007 22:15:41 GMT 3
as i said before Nadir Shah is not Turkmen, Turkmen = Yomut, Tekke, Arsary, Chowdur, Sariq.... = NO Afshars...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 3, 2007 23:26:42 GMT 3
Enough is enough, member nisse has broken many rules and he has insulted a member of the Staff, he will get banned (he was already warned several times).
Ok, we can continue our discussion.
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Post by Atabeg on Jun 3, 2007 23:56:50 GMT 3
good riddens
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Post by kokturk on Jun 5, 2007 23:53:20 GMT 3
as i said before Nadir Shah is not Turkmen, Turkmen = Yomut, Tekke, Arsary, Chowdur, Sariq.... = NO Afshars... I'm an Avshar and Avshars of Türkiye always call themselves as "Avshar Turkmen".
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 6, 2007 0:14:04 GMT 3
yes i know what you mean, but nisse was Turkmenistani Turkmen and Afshars are not Turkmenistani. Nadir fought all his life against the Turkmens of modern Turkmenistan so i say it is not reasonable that Turkmens from Turkmenistan claim Nadir Shah as their own. the word "Turkmen" as such can be applied to basically every Oghuz tribe...
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Post by balamir on Jun 6, 2007 17:06:51 GMT 3
And Afshars were a Oghuz tribe.
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