who are the azeri are they turk or indo-european

[BAWIR$AQ]

ahiskali said:

Azeris do not only live in Azerbaycan most of them live in Iran

Most of the Iranian territory where Azeri Turks live is also called "Azerbaijan".

Sometimes Azeris refer to the Iranian Azerbaijan as "South Azerbaijan" (Güney Azərbaycan)

[balamir]

bawirsaq said:

The notion of "Turkification" is a very touchy subject.

The enemies of Turks always like calling some Turks not real Turks, but as "Turkified" Greeks, Persians, Kurds, Armenians, Arabs, etc.

By reinforcing this "Turkification" concept, you're simply confirming their anti-Turk claims.

You are right BAWIRSAQ.Only mixing ;D.


There is a blood(a little or much,no difference for me) brotherhood between Turkic peoples.Also lingual and cultural.This brotherhood makes them Turks.But ý don't deny a person's Turkicness who call himself as a Turk.

But isn' it a bit strange that accept kurds,arabs,and other peoples who have no relation with us?When they call theirselves as Turks.

[Atabeg]

They are citizens of the Republic of Turkey thats a big diffrence

But this started early in History During the Ottomans the meaning of Turk chanced from people of the steppes to every muslim inhabitant of the Empire(including arabs , persian & Kurds)

The term Turk became something like American(The only real americans are the Natives)
I think in the early Ottomans era ethnic Turks were called by there "Tribal" name. Turkmen or Tatar.

[balamir]

You are false here,
Ottoman people called theirselves Ýslam or Müslüman,Turk was a bad word meaning coarse for them,they only call Yoruk Turkmens and coarse persons as Turk.The word Turk never became like American.

[Atabeg]

balamir said:

You are false here,
Ottoman people called theirselves Ýslam or Müslüman,Turk was a bad word meaning coarse for them,they only call Yoruk Turkmens and coarse persons as Turk.The word Turk never became like American.

I said early ottomans at the time of osman gazi when the state wasn't bigger than a large beylik.

[nisse]

"The notion of "Turkification" is a very touchy subject.

The enemies of Turks always like calling some Turks not real Turks, but as "Turkified" Greeks, Persians, Kurds, Armenians, Arabs, etc.

By reinforcing this "Turkification" concept, you're simply confirming their anti-Turk claims. "


True words brother

[tangriberdi]

bawirsaq said:

The notion of "Turkification" is a very touchy subject.

The enemies of Turks always like calling some Turks not real Turks, but as "Turkified" Greeks, Persians, Kurds, Armenians, Arabs, etc.

By reinforcing this "Turkification" concept, you're simply confirming their anti-Turk claims.

In accordance with your statements, I would like to remind you that Your honourable president , estimable Nursultan Nazarbayev call Qazaq people as purest Turks. What do you think about that?

[BAWIR$AQ]

tangriberdi said:

In accordance with your statements, I would like to remind you that Your honourable president , estimable Nursultan Nazarbayev call Qazaq people as purest Turks. What do you think about that?

I think that these words are somewhat offensive to Turkish people.

However: first of all, let us not forget that it is Hugh Pope's interpretation of Nazarbayev's words. (Nazarbayev doesn't speak English) We never know what exactly did Nazarbayev say.

I saw the quote to Pope's interview in an online article. In an audio interview, Pope delivers Nazarbayev's word differently, less harshly. So what did Nazarbayev say exactly?

Secondly, from what I saw he never called "pure Turks" specifically Qazaq people. In his audio interview Pope interpreted Nazarbayev saying: "Real Turks are still here, in Central Asia". It seems to me Nazarbayev was talking about all Turks of Turkistan (Central Asia).

Thirdly, it seems to me that Nazarbayev has been willing there to stress that Qazaqs are Turkic people but not Turkish people. That's all . One's ignorance of the very fact that Turks comprise not only Turks of Turkey is usually behind some regrettably harsh wording.

Actually the whole quote is very important. It shows that at least Qazaq leadership proudly identifies itself as belonging to the great family of Turks. For those who knows our countries a bit better - it is indeed an achievement.

[Atabeg]

The fact that western people think that the word is only for the people of Turkey is because they only know the Turks of teh Ottoman empire. So normal I guess.

And due to Russian propaganda or what ever you call it to Devide Central asia. Naming the the land according to there Tribal name and saying that the Tribes are infact ethnic groups.

I have met alot of people online or in real life from Central asia who say i'm Qazaq or Turkmen I'm not Turk.


I mean in Europe amongst the Turkish people most of them don't know about there CA cousins or Legacy. And ALot of them don't have it. All ethnic groups from Turkey are called Turks here.

I'm wondering if people in CA countries know about Turkic groups out side of CA? I mean the main stream. The normal people who don't know anything about politics and history

[Deleted]

The Uygurs here in E.T. identify themselves as Turks. They say they're Uygur but definetly know of their Turk race. When I meet somebody for the first time and I say "I'm a Turk" they will usualy say "me too" or "us too". The average Uygur who doesn't know much of their history know of the main Turk groups, the Turks who are now independent. They don't really know much about smaller groups of Turks. Some may know of them but may not know their names. They'll know that there are Turks in the Caucasus, in some parts of Russia and Siberia, but they won't know the names of these Turks. I have some friends who know history pretty well and are better at it but still they may not know all the names and groups of the Turks, of course they'll know more than the average person though. I guess it's because it's hard to find sources here, due to the Chinese censorship and propoganda.

[Atabeg]

I'm suprised to hear that they know about turks in the Caucasus because they are one of the least known

[Deleted]

Yea but like I said, the average Uygur who doesn't know much about Turk history knows Turks are there but they don't know the names of these Turk groups, other than Azeris. Uygurs are generally very Pan-Turkist so they definetly accept all Turks and love to identify themselves as Turks. I know many Uygurs in other countries who call themselves 'Uygur Turks' rather than just 'Uygur'. When Uygurs go into the mainland, usualy to study in a university, most of the time they say they're 'Turk' or 'Uygur Turk' when they meet foreigners.

[aykurt]

Most Azeris have localised genes. i.e they have genes that have been present in the region for so long that they are characteristic of that region regardless of what ethnic group carries them.
Its wrong to call them Turkified persians. They may have close genetic similarites to many Persians but they are not "Persian genes".
They were present in the region before the Iranians entered, which is why modern Persians dont look the same as the blonde blue eyed Iranic tribes of the past. In some cases there are resemblances to the early Iranics from Europe, but this is only because of genetic drift brought by those tribes onto the local pre IE tribes.
When the Turkic peoples and Mongols passed through the region they also brought the genes that they carry with them and there was a drift also that added to the genepool of the local peoples. Many Persians will carry these genes yet are in no way Turkic because of it.
Its common, for example in Britain, although the ANglo-Saxon legacy is strong in terms of language and ethnic identity, most Britons dont carry the same genes as the AS, in fact genetically the British mainland hasnt changed much for thousands of years. Just some drift by migrant peoples, particularly in certain areas, but overall not much change.
So ethnic identity can change without much change in genes.
Also remember genetic studies is quite recent. Noone knew of genes hundreds or thousands of years ago. So modern ideas of "racial purity" dont apply to historical ethnic identities.

[2023travel2endless]

Azeris are the Turkic tribes who migrated into the area from the 10th and 12th century.
They were Persianized as the Shiite sect of Islam linked them more closely to Persians in the 15th century.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

We can't say they were Persianized because they are still speaking Turkic.