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Post by hjernespiser on Feb 23, 2009 20:36:23 GMT 3
I thought Pazyryk might be related with the local Turkic cultures of the region, rather than with the Huns or Saka. I always picture the truth to be complex. If we follow the pattern established by more well-known steppe cultures, the eastern Saka probably were an aristocratic class that mixed in with the local population. For example, Tuvans consider the Saka of Arzhan-2 numbering among their ancestors.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 23, 2009 21:54:22 GMT 3
Hmm, yes that's logical.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 25, 2009 2:05:25 GMT 3
Right now I'm reading Boris Nikolaevič Grakov's Борис Николаевич Граков "Scythians". He thinks the Scythian-Saka artifacts found in Southern Siberia reached there via trade, and does not automaticially mean that the Saka went as far as there (like the Greek artifacts found in Scythian tombs, or Scythian ware found in non-Scythian tombs in more central-northern parts of Russia). Though I'm still at the beginning of the book and I haven't come to the chapter about the Asian Saka yet.
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Post by hjernespiser on Feb 25, 2009 2:25:45 GMT 3
That's possible. What does the book say about tattoos? I don't know if other style artifacts were found. I do know that, in the case of kurgans in Tuva, the later Turkic cultures buried their dead in the same kurgans.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 25, 2009 4:03:43 GMT 3
Well I haven't come to the part about Asian Saka yet, so I don't know He just mentions that info while talking about how Scythian objects were discovered at non-Scythian graves in Russia, and he says that similarly, Scythian ware reached the Altais and Southern Siberia via trade. Gonna give more info as I read
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Post by hjernespiser on Feb 26, 2009 2:28:05 GMT 3
I think Scythian artifacts reaching that area is a true fact that doesn't depend upon Saka being in the area or not. What I mean by this is that if Saka were in the area, we can say, "Yes, obviously there will be trade items with the local cultures." and if Saka were not in the area we could also say the same thing because we know of the extensive trade links across the steppe areas. To determine which was the case there is probably dependence upon the amount of artifacts and other circumstances of burials.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 26, 2009 3:53:21 GMT 3
Indeed.
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Feb 26, 2009 15:03:15 GMT 3
I think for examine of presence of Saka in the region, the first thing to be examined is the burial site, i.e. the study of the human remains. Do you find anything related in the Book Ihsan?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 26, 2009 15:13:54 GMT 3
Uhm not yet
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Post by Azadan Januspar on Feb 26, 2009 15:20:19 GMT 3
I think the same should be studied for Uyuk and other south Siberian cultures as well as Tashtyk. have you read the book 'Archaelogy of Central Asia' by Harmatta?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 27, 2009 10:20:47 GMT 3
No, I haven't I thought Tashtyq was a Turkic culture.
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Post by Oorvan on Aug 18, 2009 23:18:22 GMT 3
Yes The symbol which is called SWASTIKA(also symbol of Anti-Crist) is : Has 4 heads -This was found in Mongolia(I don`t remember were -sorry). legend say 4 horse heads symbolizes 4 horseman union MONGOL, TURK, HAMNIGAN, and (=some Europe looking ppl with blonde hair). U know this union called HUN(=Humanity). Mongolian scientists say HAS comes from HOS -means COUPLE =to unite. Ofcourse HAS existed before Huns. For example : piece of Scythian gold. Looks like there are 6 horsemen or 6 tribes maybe 6 brothers...etc. Bor Chono, can you now give more information about this first image? 4 horses forming the symbol of swastika? Is this Mongolian symbol? Do you remember where it was found? Who used it?
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Post by lilyrose on Sept 22, 2009 0:39:54 GMT 3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi The item pictured below was given to me with only the explanation that it's a replica of a charm or amulet worn by the "Horsemen of the Steppes". That's all they could tell me. Does anyone here recognize this, or can you tell me anything about it, even an educated guess? Anything I could learn would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 22, 2009 1:34:21 GMT 3
Greetings lilyrose, welcome aboard Unfortunately, I could not recognise the artwork.
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Post by lilyrose on Sept 22, 2009 2:19:38 GMT 3
thanks for responding. Maybe someone else will have an idea of what it is and who actually wore it.
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