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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 6, 2008 19:16:33 GMT 3
Thanx man And welcome aboard
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 6, 2008 21:28:51 GMT 3
Oh btw, here is our beloved member ALTAR from the Çepni tribe of Oghuz Turks, who has a typical Turkic look too ;D
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Post by ALTAR on Jul 6, 2008 21:43:49 GMT 3
Thanks İhsan for your share...
A short info for Qara Tatars.
They were Mongolian tribes such as Jalayır, Jungar etc. which lived in Anatolia Post Mongolian Invasions(especially llkhanli Khaganate) but after the collapse of llkhanli Khaganate, they mixed mostly with local Turcoman-Oghuz tribes in the Central Anatolia.
Tamerlane brought most of them to Turkestan after his Ottoman Campaign.
However some of them were stayed, assimilated inside local Turcomans and stated as Ulu Cungar Clan in the Ottoman Chronicles. They mostly accepted Qizilbash belief of Islam. Most of them were settled and converted to Sunni Islam by Ottomans.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 6, 2008 22:12:51 GMT 3
Thanx for the info, dear Altar
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 6, 2008 22:49:48 GMT 3
Oh, forgot to post some photos of Turkish historians who are Central Asian experts ;D Ahmet Taşağıl from Karamürsel-KocaeliGülçin Çandarlıoğlu from Balıkesir
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Post by sharshuvuu on Jul 7, 2008 2:21:12 GMT 3
Good photos indeed, Ihsan Erkoc. There is definitely a distinctive look, different from European. (And the lady from Edremit-Balikesir is easy on the eyes, isn't she?) Your cousins, both fine-looking young people, have what I think of as a Crimean Tatar look--does it strike you that way, or is it just that the Crimean Tatars I have known happen to look rather like some Anatolian Turks?
But on the whole, the people in the photos also do not look like, say, Kyrghyz either, do they? There must be a history, probably complex, that has not yet been written to account for the varieties of Turkic physiognomies.
Sharshuvuu
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 7, 2008 3:55:54 GMT 3
Thank you Sharshuvuu. My cousins tend to look more similar to our great-grandfather rather than I do It is true that Crimean Tatars look more closer to Anatolian Turks. The reason why we don't look exactly like the Qyrghyz or Sakha is largely because of climatical conditions.
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 7, 2008 18:36:01 GMT 3
You're welcome, with my pleasure Yes indeed, an important amount of modern "Greeks" are Hellenized Slavs who settled in Thessalia and Southern Macedonia. There is also this high percentage of Hellenized Albanians (the region of Athens had an Albanian majority during or just before the time of the Greek Revolution, AFAIK). I am not sure if the Turks mixed that much with the Greeks, because there was also this religious barrier I explained above. Surely, I can post examples Just tomorrow, because it's very late here. yeah but don't tell them! ;D in fact Greeks were never a big population in the first place, everyhtign north of Thessaly isn't really Greek. also particularly during middle ages and later, there were a lot of groups of peoples in Greece, modern Greeks are not really the descendants of ancient Greeks at all.
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Post by sharshuvuu on Jul 7, 2008 19:49:41 GMT 3
While there are no doubt other genetic strains in the modern Greek population, it has got to be an exaggeration to say that they are not descendants of the ancient Greeks at all. The ancient Greek bloodline did not just die out, and is doubtless still present to some degree all around the eastern Mediterranean, but especially in Greece itself. I expect that some part of the modern population are descended from Hellenized Slavs, Albanians, and others, but the genes of the ancient Greeks could not just vanish into thin air.
Sharshuvuu
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 8, 2008 2:32:30 GMT 3
Of course it did not disappear completely; what we say that not all modern Greeks are descendents of Ancient Greeks.
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Post by İLTERİŞ on Jul 8, 2008 19:16:31 GMT 3
Hi, I am the member whom the admin could not remember my nickname ;D
These photos are a very nice reply to people who say that the Turks of Turkey are not racially real Turks.
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 8, 2008 21:35:48 GMT 3
yeah i meant to say in the same way as modern Italians are not ancient Romans... modern Greeks are essentially descendants of Byzantines.
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Post by sharshuvuu on Jul 9, 2008 7:41:05 GMT 3
"Byzantines" was never an ethnic designation, and in any case, other than a poetically old-fashioned synonym of "Constantinopolitan," it is an invention of nineteenth-century French historians. Certainly not all the Greek-speaking population of the Roman Empire (renamed "Byzantine" by the above-mentioned Frangi) were descendants of the ancient Hellenes. At the same time, where would you look for descendants of the ancient Hellenes now if not among the Greeks of our days?
Sharshuvuu
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Post by Temüjin on Jul 9, 2008 19:47:04 GMT 3
yeah by byzantines i mean Romaioi, same as what the Turks called Rumi.
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Post by sharshuvuu on Jul 10, 2008 8:14:09 GMT 3
Yes, that's better. Romaioi is better.
Sharshuvuu
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